My Sony A7 II as back up for my Nikon D810... and why I decided to sell after all

[Dan Ortego]

I don't have an A7 series yet but this thread makes me wonder if I should. I've been shooting my A900 for a few years but I'm tired of the bulk. Then again I just received the f1,4 35mm and it's actually longer/taller than both my ZA 24 & ZA 50. I'm shaking my head as I type this and hopefully by the time I get around to purchasing the camera,  Sony will produce the A7rII  that may resolve some of these issues. Seemingly, all of the good things I've heard about the A7 series may be nothing more than hype.

[Insignia_ChiAki]

To Insignia_ChiAki

Is there a possibility you are just more used to the nikon colour and not the sony?

If you have been working with nikon for a longish time, you may have subconsciously adjusted to seeing, perceiving and possibly expecting the tonal qualities of the nikon colours in your images over time, i politely wonder?

 

I'm not sure this is true. I quite enjoy the Sony colors, too! In fact, some times even more so when shoot alongside my D810.

 

It's just that I am not willing to dump my Nikon gear yet since the D810 is more comfortable than the A7II for my use.

[drasko2015]

If you need it the d810 for your work, to make money for living thats ok.

 

If not its a bit overreacting to sell a7ii because of focus selection

 

I'm using the a7ii since february and no way i would ever buy a nikon camera again.

 

I use it most of the time manual and dont even use the most features like you mentioned.

 

Ive also set the ok button for focus selection and it works when i need it

 

One c custumn buttons for backfocus and thats the most important button for me

 

 

And of course all the advantages like the small weight, size, ibis for manual lenses...

[foto-fanatic]

I'm not sure this is true. I quite enjoy the Sony colors, too! In fact, some times even more so when shoot alongside my D810.

 

It's just that I am not willing to dump my Nikon gear yet since the D810 is more comfortable than the A7II for my use.

 

That makes sense, so it fits your work flow in a more satisfactory fashion and i can appreciate why too.

 

I am very much hoping sony will provide a firmware update to make use of the ibis for high res stills like Olympus do, this feature would make the camera exceptional for landys, still lifes and portraits.

 

P.S. b8ful photos!

[foto-fanatic]

I don't have an A7 series yet but this thread makes me wonder if I should. I've been shooting my A900 for a few years but I'm tired of the bulk. Then again I just received the f1,4 35mm and it's actually longer/taller than both my ZA 24 & ZA 50. I'm shaking my head as I type this and hopefully by the time I get around to purchasing the camera,  Sony will produce the A7rII  that may resolve some of these issues. Seemingly, all of the good things I've heard about the A7 series may be nothing more than hype.

 

Hi Dan don't think everything you have heard is mere hype there is a profound benefit to having a more compact body and other benefits like fold out lcd screen, focus peaking, zoom magnification, lens adaption, ibis & some smaller native lenses like the 35/2.8, 28/2, & 55/1.8 are not overwhelming in size.

There are drawbacks too though, like any camera i guess.

 

I have grown rather fond of my a7 kit, i have the native fe 70-200 zoom [beaut bit of silicon in my op] and it bothers me not the size as the handling is fine, and when i need compact i wack on an ai~ nik 28 or 50 adapted and in this form the a7x is compact as you will find in ff.

[Snowfun]

It is refreshing to see statements along the lines of "I prefer X, Y or Z" rather than "X, Y or Z are (insert %) superior!"

 

Cameras are tools and we should always pick the one best suited for the particular purpose we want at the time. Writes the chap who has just purchased a 16mm pancake for the A7ii because I need something to fit into a pocket...

T

[foto-fanatic]

Which brand pancake? Adapted?

 

Yeah it gets a bit silly, these camera corporations are not football teams, and ALL deliberately leave things out for the next model, lets not kid ourselves lol. I will buy whatever i feel will do the best job for my needs, period.

We would too if we were making those decisions. I like to think you can give a good artist any tool and they will get results, but the better the tool the better the results.

[Snowfun]

The Sony 16mm pancake. Cheap (very) and I'm interested to see how focus tracking performs on the crop mode.

 

I'm more into video than stills these days and definitely in the "it's only video so a cheap lens is fine" camp. Opportunities to pixel peep are very limited if the action/story/scene is interesting.

 

Sports teams - an interesting analogy as they do command brand loyalty!

[foto-fanatic]

Should be very interesting, try out the s-log2 gamma functions i use them sometimes when shooting stills and vid but there very customisable still learning all the parameters.

 

I have heard thats a cheapo lens hehe. I made an adapted lens the other day with a 15$ ebay adapter and an old hanimex macro zoom, took the mount plate of the bottom of the zoom and gaffer taped it to the base of the adapter connected it to a72 and it worked i kid you not.

 

hey i wonder how you would go with the nex e mount 16-50 power zoom? in apsc. thats cheap and compact??

Give you more range and more suited to video etc.

[Kinder]

I think that's the problem with switching to Sony: You use your new system like you used to use your older one. In fact, you can't do that, because you will always find differences/problems and that's normal.

 

You have to learn the new system from scratch, without even thinking about your previous camera. It will be a lot easier that way. Do not try to mimic any other system to the Sony, it will only disappoint you.

 

You have to learn the new technologies :

 

- zone AF with face recognition

- eye traking AF

- etc.

 

As for the AF point selection, I just have to push the center d-pad button and front/back wheel to choose my af point (in AF point selection, not in zone or center AF)

[tizeye]

I am in the same situation but the pendulum is swinging "stay with Nikon". Really, really wanted to switch to Sony and will hold off upgrading my D610 to the D750 (don't need D810 but the rumored imminent release of the A7RII has me curious.) On the positive Sony side, took both on a job and photos seemed sharper and better saturated colors than Nikons despite very similar sensors. Set up some controlled shots and the results blew me away. That would be a subject for a different post.

PRIMARY ISSUES:

As background, I differ from the OP as I primarily shoot real estate, architectural, landscape, wildlife, and to a lesser extent, people. As such, lighting becomes a far more critical issue. I also, shoot in RAW 99% of time. Not helping Sony is it needs warranty repair as suddenly developed "camera Error: turn camera off and on" message.

1) Elevated camera with remote viewing and capture, despite camera being set to RAW, Sony takes in jpg, Nikon retains RAW on the SD card. This is important when shooting south into the sun as it arcs from east to west where the front of the house will be in shadows all day. You need RAW to pull out that shadow detail that jpg just can't.

2) Interior lighting highlights Sony's shortcoming and the heaviest weighted in the decision making. Typically don't do HDR (which is a Sony weakness as well - touching camera for manually doing HDR, or auto HDR with jpg output) Closest I get if other lighting is not appropriate is photo fusion. Essentially, take an HDR like sequence and also throw in one flash frame, blended together in fusion software rather than HDR and it is MUCH cleaner. 

3) Lighting - continued. Almost 100% of time use 2 or 3 off camera flashes with at least 2 raised for ceiling wall bounce, and a 3rd in adjacent room so door view isn't dark. While I did start with cheap triggers/flash and ran around lowering and raising flash to adjust flash output, I have progressed over the years to PW TT5's and an AC3 unit to adjust output at camera while maintaining manual mode on the flashes (despite TTL capability). Flash units are all Nikon and the CLS system is my expensive backup system, which like Sony's require the trigger flash to be on camera - which is a problem. The only equivalent game in town for Sony is Phottix Odin, but despite owning the market, Phottix can't deliver with units perpetually backordered at Adorama and B&H (I have orders at both for past 2 weeks - cancel one if other fills)  and Sony units are  totally missing from Phottix online store. Nissin Air appear promising until you realize it is a closed system using only specific Nissin flash with no receiver unit to use non-Nissin flash. That leaves either retuning to manual only triggers and the additional workflow running around adjusting output, or Sony's CLS equivalent system where can adjust at camera BUT requires a flash oncamera to trigger, and I believe TTL only. That would create a problem if I had a manual flash, such as a studio strobe, in the system as the TTL pre-flash would trigger optical and no place for a manual transmitter as the flash on camera takes the shoe.

4) Lighting - continued II. Didn't mean for this to become a tutorial, but "Why is it important" deserves its own section. The biggest issue with lighting and interior photography is reflections. Windows, mirrors, picture frames, TV screens, some furniture - you name it. It is a minefield requiring attention to both camera placement and flash placement. Moving flash and/or camera 6" one way or another can make all the difference, removing/hiding the reflection. Having a flash on the camera, as required with Sony/Nikon CLS severely limits camera placement to the point of impacting composition. In some cases it can't be taken at all, particularly in bathrooms where I place the camera where hides in mirror convergence and self timer to keep me out of it and minor Photoshop to remove bits of camera - which is a lot easier than Photshopping myself out or worse...flash glare from the mandatory on-camera flash of CLS. MAny times in bathrooms I still use flash, but manually position, angling and handholding the flash/stand high out of the picture and mirrors, although at times will resort t HDR/fusion with or without the flash frame.

[Kinder]

I am in the same situation but the pendulum is swinging "stay with Nikon". Really, really wanted to switch to Sony and will hold off upgrading my D610 to the D750 (don't need D810 but the rumored imminent release of the A7RII has me curious.) On the positive Sony side, took both on a job and photos seemed sharper and better saturated colors than Nikons despite very similar sensors. Set up some controlled shots and the results blew me away. That would be a subject for a different post.

PRIMARY ISSUES:

As background, I differ from the OP as I primarily shoot real estate, architectural, landscape, wildlife, and to a lesser extent, people. As such, lighting becomes a far more critical issue. I also, shoot in RAW 99% of time. Not helping Sony is it needs warranty repair as suddenly developed "camera Error: turn camera off and on" message.

1) Elevated camera with remote viewing and capture, despite camera being set to RAW, Sony takes in jpg, Nikon retains RAW on the SD card. This is important when shooting south into the sun as it arcs from east to west where the front of the house will be in shadows all day. You need RAW to pull out that shadow detail that jpg just can't.

2) Interior lighting highlights Sony's shortcoming and the heaviest weighted in the decision making. Typically don't do HDR (which is a Sony weakness as well - touching camera for manually doing HDR, or auto HDR with jpg output) Closest I get if other lighting is not appropriate is photo fusion. Essentially, take an HDR like sequence and also throw in one flash frame, blended together in fusion software rather than HDR and it is MUCH cleaner. 

3) Lighting - continued. Almost 100% of time use 2 or 3 off camera flashes with at least 2 raised for ceiling wall bounce, and a 3rd in adjacent room so door view isn't dark. While I did start with cheap triggers/flash and ran around lowering and raising flash to adjust flash output, I have progressed over the years to PW TT5's and an AC3 unit to adjust output at camera while maintaining manual mode on the flashes (despite TTL capability). Flash units are all Nikon and the CLS system is my expensive backup system, which like Sony's require the trigger flash to be on camera - which is a problem. The only equivalent game in town for Sony is Phottix Odin, but despite owning the market, Phottix can't deliver with units perpetually backordered at Adorama and B&H (I have orders at both for past 2 weeks - cancel one if other fills)  and Sony units are  totally missing from Phottix online store. Nissin Air appear promising until you realize it is a closed system using only specific Nissin flash with no receiver unit to use non-Nissin flash. That leaves either retuning to manual only triggers and the additional workflow running around adjusting output, or Sony's CLS equivalent system where can adjust at camera BUT requires a flash oncamera to trigger, and I believe TTL only. That would create a problem if I had a manual flash, such as a studio strobe, in the system as the TTL pre-flash would trigger optical and no place for a manual transmitter as the flash on camera takes the shoe.

4) Lighting - continued II. Didn't mean for this to become a tutorial, but "Why is it important" deserves its own section. The biggest issue with lighting and interior photography is reflections. Windows, mirrors, picture frames, TV screens, some furniture - you name it. It is a minefield requiring attention to both camera placement and flash placement. Moving flash and/or camera 6" one way or another can make all the difference, removing/hiding the reflection. Having a flash on the camera, as required with Sony/Nikon CLS severely limits camera placement to the point of impacting composition. In some cases it can't be taken at all, particularly in bathrooms where I place the camera where hides in mirror convergence and self timer to keep me out of it and minor Photoshop to remove bits of camera - which is a lot easier than Photshopping myself out or worse...flash glare from the mandatory on-camera flash of CLS. MAny times in bathrooms I still use flash, but manually position, angling and handholding the flash/stand high out of the picture and mirrors, although at times will resort t HDR/fusion with or without the flash frame.

 

You don't need TTL, especially for RE and Architecture. Your lighting issues are "non-issues". And yet if you use TTL, ADI is a special TTL mode which recognize reflections and mirrors and adjusts automatically the output of the flashes.

 

I use Yongnuo 560-TX and 4 YN560IV,  no problem so far. No need to run around adjusting output, all is done with the 560-TX.

Minolta/Sony Wireless also worked flawlessly before I had my Yongnuos (WL worked with Yongnuos also).

 

Why would you shoot jpegs and HDR? (hint: DRO will give you better results, with a little more noise). Always shoot bracketed RAW and blend your frames (or use flashes/strobes). No one shoots jpegs in RE/Architecture. At least I don't and I don't see the point since you have less room to develop/work with.

[tizeye]

You don't need TTL, especially for RE and Architecture. Your lighting issues are "non-issues". And yet if you use TTL, ADI is a special TTL mode which recognize reflections and mirrors and adjusts automatically the output of the flashes.

 

I use Yongnuo 560-TX and 4 YN560IV,  no problem so far. No need to run around adjusting output, all is done with the 560-TX.

Minolta/Sony Wireless also worked flawlessly before I had my Yongnuos (WL worked with Yongnuos also).

 

Why would you shoot jpegs and HDR? (hint: DRO will give you better results, with a little more noise). Always shoot bracketed RAW and blend your frames (or use flashes/strobes). No one shoots jpegs in RE/Architecture. At least I don't and I don't see the point since you have less room to develop/work with.

Don't know where My earlier reply disappeared to. First, I don't use TTL, manual 99% of time. It is just that to use manual with remote at camera required (until recently) a TTL capable trigger system. With the Pocket Wizards the flash is set on TTL-FP (high speed sync) and the TT1 attached to the camera with the optional AC3 unit switches between manual and TTL. and setting power. It effective made an expensive backup as I could revert to Nikon's CLS system if something was wrong with the PocketWizards - like left on and dead battery.

 

I did look at the Yongnuo offerings and didn't see anything Sony specific to the level of the 560-TX which are noted Nikon and Canon specific. Researching today, that apparently is to send the camera specific  wake up signal, but works fine on other cameras without the wakeup signal. That puts is in a whole new realm, coupled with inexpensive 560 III or IV which don't require a separate 602/603 receiver. That raises a lot of possibilities and selling current equipment, could easily add a 600w battery operated Flashpoint strobe with a 603 (or optical) to trigger.

 

I don't shoot in jpg. The camera is set to Raw and it stays there. However, Sony output to jpg with the IOS remote trigger despite the camera set to RAW. While it is understandable (and desirable) that a jpg rendering was transmitted to the iPad, at least Nikon had the RAW/NEF image on the SD card for working on in Lightroom where Sony only saved a jpg image to the SD card. It Is great for pole photography which typically is the front "money" shot, just the jpg output when using the app. With Nikon I use a Camranger setup as the D610 doesn't have wireless setup internally. Camranger is not coming out with a Sony version as I asked. They would like to as I haven't been the first to ask, but Sony won't share the protocols with developers.

 

I haven't tested Sony's HDR but apparently the only way to take the sequence without touching the camera is to use their auto in-camera processing which is output in jpg. Manually taking a sequence with set aperture/iso and manually changing the shutter for processing in HDR/Fusion software in post requires touching the camera for each shot - including a flashed shot. Admitedly, I do the dame thing with the Nikon D610 if I want to do a 5 or more shot sequence ad the camera is limited to 3 - and the added flash is always manual additional exposure. The D750 and D810 can do more than 3 shots in a sequence.

[storyteller]

Don't know where My earlier reply disappeared to. First, I don't use TTL, manual 99% of time. It is just that to use manual with remote at camera required (until recently) a TTL capable trigger system. ...

 

... The camera is set to Raw and it stays there. However, Sony output to jpg with the IOS remote trigger despite the camera set to RAW. While it is understandable (and desirable) that a jpg rendering was transmitted to the iPad, at least Nikon had the RAW/NEF image on the SD card for working on in Lightroom where Sony only saved a jpg image to the SD card.

 

I haven't tested Sony's HDR but apparently the only way to take the sequence without touching the camera is to use their auto in-camera processing which is output in jpg. ...

 

Sony's flash system is a bit limited but if you shoot manual, the Godox/Flashpoint system works just fine too. I did have to get a set of PixelKings to enable HSS on my A7 but it works well and allows for remote control of the power levels, functions, etc. Just not TTL.

 

You can save RAW files with the Remote Control app. Just go into the app menu and change the setting. It will only ever transmit the JPG but there is a JPG+RAW option.

 

I don't shoot a lot of HDR but I know there is a continuous three shot bracket. It does not have its own self timer so you will need to use either a wired or IR remote. I have a cheap generic IR remote that's never failed me.

[Max the Dog]

I've been banging on the Sony A7r and Nikon D810 for a while. 

 

I have some criticisms of the Nikon here -

 

https://sonyvnikon.wordpress.com/2015/06/11/nikon-d810-isnt-perfect-there-ive-said-it/

 

 

But when you go head to head with the A7r and D810 - it's not even a contest.

 

https://sonyvnikon.wordpress.com/2015/07/04/bloody-hell-sony-a7r-blur-jays/

 

https://sonyvnikon.wordpress.com/2015/07/02/bloody-simple-blue-jay/

[Max the Dog]

Tizeye - bottom line - you need professional equipment to get professional results.

 

My experience is coming from the other direction.  Gained enough knowledge and skill level to realize Sony wasn't going to cut it for me any longer. 

 

I do portraits professionally with up to 3 910s and some static back and fill lights.  Can't even imagine using a Sony for this. 

 

When I still used a Sony A7r for portraits (with Zeiss Otus 85mm and/or Apo Sonnar 135mm) I had way too many sessions that Sony's 11+7 color and disastrous WB completely made some people's photos just satisfactory after hours and hours of corrections and retouching.   

 

Nikon - straight out of the camera works 99.9% of the time and for me that means more time with wife or doing what I want to do.   

[Golem]

....... for me that means

more time with wife or

doing what I want to do.

ROTFLMFAO

 

 

`

[Golem]

... bottom line - you need professional

equipment to get professional results.

 

............

Patently false, proven so over

and over again. Pure mythology.

 

`

[Karlitos]

Dear Golem

 

You worry too much about irrelevant stuff. Have a look at the SonyVNikon blog and you know Max's problem is that he was not capable of using his A7x properly. So, it was to right thing for him to go back to Nikon. That's what we all should do: Use the equipment we are comfortable with and are able to handle.

[Insignia_ChiAki]

Hey guys. Thought I would do an update for this post.

 

Recently I've switched back to using A7 II as my main. I've sold all my Nikon gear due to focus-shifting issues both on my camera body and Sigma lenses. Though a not-so-happy Sony user still, I'm looking forward to Sony fixing some of my concerns, such as changing lowest shutter speeds in AUTO ISO, via firmware updates, since some of the fixes are already present native on the flagship A7R II.

 

Also sharing some thoughts on the new flagship, A7R II looks to be very promising. I will probably end up upgrading once the price gets stable.

 

That 40MP resolution though... I'll probably be needing some hardware updates for my PC too.

 

Happy shooting

[Max the Dog]

Wow bait and switch article.  Was the whole thing a set-up ? 

 

You nailed it on the head when you offered up the color issues that Sony has that represents hours of more work in post and still not able to get it right.

 

That's because all of the Nikon's dynamic range is available to you and in Sony it's at least 2 stops less on both sides before banding, artifacts and posterization occurs.

[easycass]

Hi,

 

Great initial post and really great pictures. Like yourself, I am a Nikon shooter. I see you have now switched and wondered if you can help me with my experience with the Sony's... I did write a large post about this, and will try to summarize here...

 

I tried out an A7Rii today, and it just failed to perform well in some of my tests, so maybe I had it set wrong.

 

I really like to have good camera response. For example, with my Nikon's, I can do this:-

 

1) Aperture Priority, AF-C, 3D Tracking, back button AF, shutter AEL but not linked to AF,single shot drive mode.

2) Use back button AF, target and track subject through VF while moving due to either subject movement and/or frame recomposition, and fire the shutter at will whenever I anticipate the shot I want.

3) With this setup I can fire a single frame once in a while, once every few seconds, or if I really want, and so long as my eye, reflexes and finger can do it, fire, at will, up to 4 to 5 shots per second.

4) Imagine looking through the VF, seeing a smile, firing a shot, and just as you fire, you note through the VF that the subject blinked, so you quickly fire another shot, and as their expression slightly changes, you then do a few more shots in quick succession.

5) Throughout this whole thing, you have kept your thumb on the back AF button, which not only just tracks the subject, in this case the eye of the person, but it continues to track throughout the whole sequence of shutter activations. Plus, if a shot is focussed and for the next shot subject has not moved, there is no lens AF movement prior to the next shot (makes sense to me).

 

Now my D700 does all this, as does my lightweight D5500. I have walked into a shop, picked up a D810,and done the same, with even better performance, absolutely instant response, no fuss, just works, able to fire as I needed, when I wanted, seeing a tiny image blackout time, and monitoring movement in real time through the VF.

 

So, back finally to the Sony A7Rii. I didn't have much time, a brief play. Set Aperture Priority, AF-C, Tracking Lock, back button AF, shutter AEL but not linked to AF,single shot drive mode, image review Off. But this is what I experienced...

 

1) AF very fast

2) shutter response on first shot, instant

3) next shot unable to take until maybe a delay of more than 0.5 second

4) even though the previous shot was focussed, before the next shot, still some lens AF movement before next firing

5) pressing the shutter button as fast as I can, only able to initiate about 2 shots per second

 

I then tried continuous drive mode shooting, in hi mode, but only got about 3 fps, plus, the worst part is that instead of a continuous, fluid view of the scene, each frame fired caused a small freeze in EVF just as each shot happened, making it less fluid than an optical VF.

 

Soooo, I have heard reviewers say this A7Rii is a rocket, whereas as for me, it just is not responsive. I found I was waiting for the camera. I am VERY open to hearing from anyone on how to set things on camera to speed things up...

 

As a test of sanity for me, be great if you can perform a test...

 

1) Set your camera to give you the fastest response time

2) While continuously autofocusing on a subject, press and release the shutter button as many times as you can, and let me know how many single shutter actuations you get in 5 seconds

3) Let me know the settings you used to achieve it

 

Your help in this, before I decide on a Nikon D810 or Sony A7Rii would be most appreciated.

 

Essentially, 'what is the settings I need to get the best shot to shot responsiveness out of the A7Rii, while tracking a subject throughout the shot sequence, in SINGLE shot drive mode' .

 

Appreciate it...

[Insignia_ChiAki]

https://insigniachiaki.wordpress.com/

 

Hi! I would just to like you guys to know that I have created a blog and updated my impressions of the A7 II in a post there.

 

Some of my thoughts have changed after having played with the A7R II and more mirrorless Fuji cameras.

 

It would be great to have some feedbacks! Thanks!