Jump to content

Would you be interested in a Sony a6500 and a Sony a7RII, a7SII in a Canon 80D form factor?


Recommended Posts

Hello there! :)

 

My first post here is a long one, so I've made headlines hoping this will make it more clear and easier to navigate quickly.

 

Background information: I like both photography and videography and I'm looking for a hybrid camera which does both really well and also has an ergonomic form factor. I currently own a Canon 40D which balances very well with my 70-200mm f4 IS lens and a full sized speedlight when I take pictures at conferences and events. The grip on the 40D is large and secure so I can easily hold on to this combination even when taking pictures in portrait orientation where the weight of the speedlight adds rotational force on the camera as it sticks out to the side. I need a full sized speedlight as I almost exclusively use bounce flash at conferences. I also own a Panasonic GH3 which form factor I like very much for video. I find the fully articulating touch screen a joy to use. I also use the GH3 at conferences with a 12-35mm zoom lens to compliment the 40D. However the GH3 does not balance very well with a full sized flash and the hotshoe also broke off after light use. I've had it repaired but now I use a TTL-cord to the speedlight, so I don't put too much weight on the hotshoe. My 40D is getting old and I'm hoping to upgrade. I've looked at the 80D which seems to be a very nice camera except it appears Canon has decided reserve high quality video to its cinema line of cameras. Therefore I've been looking at Sony's offerings which seem to do both photography and video at a very high level. Fuji also came to mind, but I'd prefer a system which has both APSC and full frame offerings. I'm aware of the A99II, but having Canon lenses I'm more attracted to the e-mount, as it allows me to use my existing lenses while trying out the Sony system. So far Sony's e-mount appears to cater to the current trend of miniaturizing cameras. I posted the below question in a videography oriented forum, and everyone who responded seemed to prefer smaller cameras. I guess my wish for a camera that also balances well with a full sized speedlight separates me from most video shooters.

 

I think this forum is visited by people who are more or less interested in both photography and video. Therefore I'm curious to see what people here would answer to the below question, so please let your voice be heard and feel free to elaborate in the commentssmiley.gif:

 

Question: Would you be interested in a Sony a6500 and a Sony a7RII, a7SII in a Canon 80D form factor?


Please note: I'm not advocating that Sony should increase the size of the a6xxx or a7x series. I'm wishing that they make a separate camera line with the same technology used in the a6xxx and a7x cameras, but in a larger DSLR-like form factor like the Canon 80D. Personally I really like the ergonomics of Canon DSLRs. However, I believe mirrorless cameras are the future, and Canon's offerings don't appeal to me. I also see the advantages of having small compact mirrorless cameras like the a6500. They are great for traveling light when used with pancake lenses, great for keeping a low profile, great for gimbal use etc. I would just like the same technology to be available in a larger more ergonomic body as well. I don't see why all mirrorless cameras per definition must be small. The definition of mirrorless, as I understand it, simply means an interchangeable lens camera without a mirror. Here are some of the main reasons, in no particular order, for me wanting a larger form factor à la the Canon 80D.


1) A larger grip makes using the camera more secure and comfortable when shooting for a prolonged time - especially for those with larger hands
2) Larger buttons and controls with a bit more space between them makes operation less "cramped" - again especially for those with larger hands
3) Better balance when using a large lens and a full sized speedlight on camera - important for those of us using large lenses and a lot of bounce flash
4) Room for a fully articulating touch screen
5) Room for a larger heatsink to further reduce the risk of overheating
6) Room for dual card slots
7) Room for a headphone port (already there on the a7-series)
8) Room for a larger battery
9) Perhaps room for a full sized HDMI port


I understand that there are rumors about a larger more professional camera series above the a7 line, currently dubbed the a9. However, I'm "just" a hobbyist, and it would be very hard for me to justify spending 3500-5000 USD on a single camera. Therefore I really wish Sony would also make available cameras that both have a more ergonomic form factor and are in a price range accessible for enthusiasts. I think they would win over many DSLR-users, both professionals and enthusiasts like myself, if they did that. Sony has stated that they are committed to both the e-mount and a-mount, which makes me wonder if they've reserved the more ergonomic DSLR form factor for the a-mount. I hope not.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello.  Your points are very fair and mimic my own circuit through the Sony product line of APSC (A6x), FullFrame (A7x), Pocket (RX100x), and bridge (RX10x).  I played with all of them and even went through a matrix building process.  Then I built a summary of what I might use in the future but also went backwards in time to look at what I used most for cameras and lenses.   I even looked EXIF data trying to figure out the lenses and settings of my old photos from my Canon DSLR 20D through 60D, Canon pockets, Nikon bridges, and Nikon D300.  I wound up buying the RX10ii bridge camera and will likely keep it for a long time.  

 

I am not a pro, nor a semi-pro, but I do enjoy very high quality images and videos.  I found $3,000 ceiling to be reasonable for a body, a wide lens, a portrait lens, and a long zoom.  But when I was all done with my Canon/Nikons I was fighting them to the point I was using my pocket Canon 80% of the time.  

 

THE MARKET

Based upon what is sold today I can say with great certainty, Canon has lost almost all control of their market selling solid product but it is like still selling 2010 Honda Accords - stale, featureless, and frustrating but reliable.  Nikon has slogged along with the excellent D810 at the top but push $5-$7k easily with a simple lens package.  The Nikon D7200 is solid but again, an old Honda.  The D500 appears to be a great product but is really a DSLR and video cannot be ignored anymore, especially 4k.  Their APSC lens line is terribly dated and although the Sony APSC lenses are also becoming old, they have remained exceptionally ahead of their time since they are silent motor drive very good for video work where the CaNikon product is fast focus on photos but noisy and dogs on video.    

 

MY PATH & EXPERIENCE

So...I looped through this interesting path and out popped the RX10ii and i could NOT be happier!  The pics are STUNNING and I can assure you it is cranking out images on par with the A6000 in moderate lighting limits and lens limits.  Of course it's a 1" sensor so I dont have the light limit advantages nor the output of a crazy good lens, but the real benefit is a "grab and go" performance without missing shots due to juggling lenses.  Living in Florida I am also hammered with high light levels so I value the built in ND filter tremendously!  Also, there is ZERO overheating in video mode due to the larger body.  The buttons are much easier to handle than the A6000's and placement is much nicer if you have history with DSLR's or simply fat fingers like myself. I shot 1100 photos at a Halloween parade in 90 minutes and THANK GOODNESS for the flip down screen since I was shooting with the camera over my head the whole time.  I was also using an Ebay remote on a 3ft cable and monopod and the autofocus and settings were hitting easily 90% plus in burst mode.  Also, all the BULLCRAP on the battery rants is garbage!  I did these 1100 shots NEVER turning off my camera for 90 minutes (it went into sleep every 1minute) but I cranked 3-5 shot bursts constantly and used only 35% battery!   I am sorry...even with multiple batteries, they are $5 on Amazon and work just fine vs the proprietary fight for CaNikons for $50 which I hated.  

 

WHAT WOULD I DO NOW?

I will keep my RX10ii.  It meets probably 80% of my needs today but like you, but I would like to get into some premium pics, maybe helping friends with some weddings.  I just see way too many fantastic shots with the A6300 so I will likely step into the A6500 with three lenses - the 10-18/F4 since I love landscapes, the 18-105/F4 (or 16-70/F4 Zeiss) for video, and the 50mm/1.8 (75mm equiv) for portraits.  I am truly covered on 90% with these three lenses.  I believe the 10-18 is stunning and see little interest in other wide angles than maybe the Rokinon 12mm for astro which is possible in south Florida. The A6500 and three lenses would total @$3,000 and hold value well.  To push to pro levels I would need to pass probably $8-10k with the A7Rii and the 24-70 Gmaster, 70-200, and a couple Batis primes.  Even if I had the money, it's not my job so I just couldn't justify it.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

@TBREIT: Thanks for sharing your story! :)   Yea, it's not easy trying to find the perfect compromise for ones particular shooting style. And yes, I too wish Canon had offerings with the same video technology as Sony. I'm glad to hear you're happy with the Sony RX10II. It looks like a solid camera that does many things very well. And having a fixed lens with a large zoom range it would probably also be a good travel camera. Yea, built ND's are great, as it also gives us more freedom to choose a desired aperture. Good to hear that you're happy about battery life. That it doesn't overheat I find really important, as well as the more ergonomic form factor of the RX10II body. Unfortunately overheating seems to be a serious issue with several other Sony cameras, but with the a6500 it looks like Sony are beginning to address the issue. I just hope they're not just letting the a6500 run hotter before the overheat protection is enabled. I'd much prefer a larger camera body that doesn't overheat, also for all the other reasons that I've outlined above. The a6500 is actually one of the Sony cameras that I have my eye on. It's smaller and less ergonomic than I would prefer, but it has so many of the features I desire. So I'll have a close look at it when it comes out, and, like you, I'll probably try it out. Please share your findings if you add the a6500 to your camera bag :)

 

@Golem: If you read my original post you'll find the reasons for me wanting an e-mount camera with a larger more ergonomic DSLR-like body that is packed with all the advanced photography and videography features of the a6xxx and a7x cameras. I guess smaller cameras suit your shooting style better, and that's fine. I just wish the same technology was also available in a larger more ergonomic camera body that is still e-mount. E-mount is important to those of us who come from another brand and are trying out the Sony system, as it, to a large extent, gives us the flexibility to use our existing lenses.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Appears you like the style and performance of a Corvette want it to hold three other members of the family and all their luggage for a cross country vacation. Sometimes an object desire or fantasy is just a bad fit and it's time to move on.

 

1) A larger grip makes using the camera more secure and comfortable when shooting for a prolonged time - especially for those with larger hands

- - - Put the camera in a cage or rig or fashion a custom less bulky rig like I did.

 

2) Larger buttons and controls with a bit more space between them makes operation less "cramped" - again especially for those with larger hands

- - - Set up custom M1and M2 buttons for less fiddling.

 

3) Better balance when using a large lens and a full sized speedlight on camera - important for those of us using large lenses and a lot of bounce flash

- - - My tripod plate has a quick release slider block to balance a 28mm to 70-200 quickly.

 

4) Room for a fully articulating touch screen

- - - This WOULD be optimum but I've learned to work my way around the simple one axis tilt limitation. (External monitor on video shoots.)

 

5) Room for a larger heatsink to further reduce the risk of overheating

- - - The 'risk' is not necessarily gospel. Ran the A7SII for 1hr 49 in 4K continuous without shutdown. (Sony hack allows 14 hr shoot)

 

6) Room for dual card slots

- - - There two spare tires in your trunk or you carry an extra shoelace in your pocket? Routinely shoot on 128 and 256 cards and never worry about card failure.

 

7) Room for a headphone port (already there on the a7-series)

- - - Monitor audio from the level indicators. I never run a shoot without using a secondary audio recorder that CAN be monitored & mixed later if necessary. Your production is doomed if you solely rely on the onboard camera omnidirectional microphone.

 

8) Room for a larger battery

- - - Pack additional or use external. Ran that 1:49 (Sony hack) shoot mentioned above from a NP-F550 that will power camera for 3:15 before exhaustion.

 

9) Perhaps room for a full sized HDMI port

- - - Why a monster port for something not often used? Micro HDMI port is fine. Connects to external Atomos monitor or TV just fine.

 

All your requests makes the entire package larger and destroys the smaller form factor maybe 98% of users are satisfied with or can accommodate. Station wagons should stay in the left lane because Corvettes will run them over if in the right lane.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Posts

    • Thanks for the very useful information. The 16-55 tempts me, I can live with the absence of stabilisation, what holds me is the price tag. As always, there is not such a thing like a free lunch in life. The Sony gives performance at a reasonable size but with no stabilisation and higher price tag, the Zeiss is compact, stabilised and reasonably priced but lower performed, while the Tamron provides performance at very good price and stabilisation at the expense of bulkiness. 😀 All in all, I think I will give a try to the Tamron, once I have taken in my hands. Here are two cutouts taken close to the center of the picture. The sharper one is the kit zoom, the other is the 18-105 mm, at approximately the same lenght around 40 mm at /f 8. The difference is impressive and more impressive for me is that all the lenses in the shop had the same behaviour on two different cameras. At this point looks like a whole batch and not just a lens.  

      Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

      Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

    • That's a pity and certainly doesn't match with my experience with the 18-105: mine is definately on par with the 16-50 kit lens (which on its own was as decent as I could expect from such a cheap lens). Sure, dont expect sharp corners especially wide open, but in the center my 18-105 left little to be desired across most of the zoom range. The 16-55 does beat it in every regard except zoom range though. The Tamron 17-70 trades blows with the 16-55 and might be the better choice in some cases. I went for the 16-55 because of the smaller size (I also found the 18-105 too bulky most of the time) and slightly wider FoV. My camera has a stabilized sensor so stabilized optics was no requirement for me. As you noted, I kept the 18-105 on my old A6000 for the occasional video project.
    • Thanks! The 18-105 mm /f4 was PERFECT lens for my needs but a HUGE disappointed. I bought it with the camera, then I brought it with me on a trip. To my disappointed, all pictures came out slightly blurred, like the lens was slightly out of focus. Stepping down was not solving the issue. The kit lens was definitely better, to my surprise. Thinking that I got a lemon, I went back to the shop where I bought It (luckily, I has bought both the camera and the lens in a brick and mortar store). We tested the lens on another camera and it was the same. Then we tested other copies of the same lens that the store had in stock and all showed the same lack if sharpness. All pictures slightly out of focus. In the end I returned the lens and used the money to buy other equipment. I must admit that it was a perfect lens for video but it is not what I use my camera for. Actually this was confirmed by the shop owner, most buyers of the 18-105 mm are interested in its video capabilities. I will have a look at the Tamron, the Sony 16-55 is almost double the price, at least here, so I will keep it out of the picture, at least for the time being. The Sigma also looks as an interesting option.  
  • Topics

×
×
  • Create New...