Should I upgrade to Full Frame?

[SideshowBrendan]

Hi Lads and Ladies,

I am a Sony Alpha user looking for a little guidance/help and hoping ye can point me in the right direction.

I have used Sony mirrorless for the last 4 years and am very happy with the results.

Currently I use a Nex-7, and my main lens is the Zeiss 16/70, which gives an equivilant of 24-105 in full frame.

I find the camera mostly brilliant for my needs – mainly travel photography, hiking. Basically i am a guy who is on the move. And i love the way the APSC just fits easily into my bag. So lightweight. It doesn’t look obtrusive and gives great results.

The one drawback to it that I see is it’s performance in low light. It really is chronic at night time. It is a big enough problem that I am considering moving to full frame.

At the minute I have the 28mm f2 lens which I do use in low light or at night time. It gets me by, but I would like to get better results.

I can get a deal on an A7R off a friend (though I suspect A7S or A7 would be better for me). But the deal is good enough that it really is worth considering.

The main question I have is about the lenses that would suit me that I can continue in roughly the same vein as before.

I have tried the A7R with the 24-70 f2.8 in an expo. The results are really amazing. Just jaw dropping.

But I feel the lens is just…..too big and heavy for what I need. I  mean, I could use it. But I need to consider all options before splashing out that cash. I'd hate to be lugging 20kg up a mountain and have that strapped across my chest, so maybe I wouldn't use that lens so much.

I am not professional, but am in the very active hobby category.

Is the FE 24-70 f4 OSS much smaller (and lighter) than the f2.8?

Are the images in real life really as bad as what I read on reviews?

Or are these not really paying attention to artistic quality and more attention to rigid tests?

 

Or another way to put it….does anyone have any idea of a comparison between the Nex7 /Zeiss 16-70 combo and the A7R/Zeiss 24-70?

Are the images much better? Will I be able to get an extra few stops in low light? Roughly how many? If this is the case I could invest and also buy a super fast prime (if there was any small ones around the 35mm range)

Or am I better just getting on with it and buying the 24-70 f2.8? 

Or is there any super super fast prime for the Nex that will change the game for me (around 35mm ff focal range)?

 

Any tips/comments or suggestions I am more than happy to hear your opinion!

Thanks,

Brendan 

[JonathanStewart]

You might consider the a6500 which, with internal stabilization, will let you use slower shutter speeds, thus lower ISO, and you can continue using your 16-70 f/4. I would say the G-Master 24-70 f/2.8 is overkill for that body.  Maybe invest in the 55mm f/1.8, which is plenty fast, and a great optic (and can be found on ebay for cheap), and gives you a path to full frame should you go in that direction eventually.  

[Username]

You don't need FF to improve, very noticeably, on 

the high ISO noise of a Nex-7. Any of the a6XXX

APSC would be a major improvement. This is not 

speculation, no me repeating internet hearsay. It's 

my experience from my current Sonys on hand, 

specifically Nex-6, Nex-7, a6000, and a7-II. The 

Nex-7 is the earliest model and definitely worst at 

high ISO noise. The a7-II is barely better than the  

a6000 ... so no need to go for FF if noise is your 

main reason.  

[Lefty]

Jonathan is right, stabilization in the A6500 will give you the equivalent of a 3-4 stops faster lens. Your f4 becomes the equivalent of f1.4 or faster. In addition, the Nex7 is getting long in the tooth, just like my Nex5N. Both are from 2011, and that's almost two generations old in technology. The A6500 is what I'm looking at to replace my Nex. For you the new body would leverage your investment in your excellent zoom.

 

I'd suggest against the A7 series cameras. They are starting to age, they're really only a couple of years newer than the Nex7. In body stabilization was the big change with the A7II series, but there were ergonomic improvements and they fixed several things that were problem areas on the A7. That would also leave you with an orphan, but excellent, zoom.

 

I love stabilization. I came from Minolta to Sony so had a bag of A mount lenses that I use on Sony A mount cameras. I was intrigued by the full frame A7 but would not switch until the A7II came out with in body stabilization. I have used it almost exclusively with the A mount adapter, LA-EA4, and older A mount glass, some of which is almost 30 years old. The A7II is a wonderful camera and the old glass, some of it pretty fast and incredibly fast with stabilization, is a good combination. FF felt like coming home, and I've never looked back.

 

Another thought if you're a little adventurous is older manual focus lenses and an inexpensive adapter to E mount. Many of those old lenses were fast, they had to be to make up for the slow ASA/ISO of color films. By the '70s they had pretty good coatings, although today's are better - but that's fixable in post. Kodachrome was unforgiving, so many of them are very good to excellent lenses. The lenses are cheap cheap cheap these days and adapters often less than twenty bucks. They can be fun to shoot with.

 

Hope this is of some use to you.

[Lefty]

dupe

[Lefty]

dupe

[Gilgenberg]

it depends what do you want to improve ?

 

i came from NEX-7 and have now the A7S so low ISO, IQ and EVF is  amazing

 

Full Frame is different, i love the form factor from APS-C but fall in love with legacy lenses

 

so the A7S is for me the best with FF legacy lenses and it is still small and not so bulky like the MII body´s with IBIS

 

one thing i really don´t liked from the A7 is the shutter noise and the A7R is worse than the A7!

 

A7S and i think also  6500 maybe 6300 has silent shooting and the APS-C shutter sound is much lower than from A7R!

 

if you don´t like to work with FF lenses go for the 6500 with IBIS as JONATHAN mentioned

 

i would recommend the SEL 50mm 1.8 OSS over the FE 55mm if you go with a 6000 body without IBIS

 

the FE 55 on FF is amazing but on APS-C it is not 600 bugs better than the SEL 50 

 

also if you stay with and APS-C and OSS lenses there no need for IBIS, (longer batterie life)

[SideshowBrendan]

Thanks for all the advice guys, I really do appreciate. I thought the IBIS just replaces the OSS on my lens, meaning I'm not really gaining any stops compared to where I'm at now? Or is it the case that IBIS + OSS yoelds more than either used by themselves?

Some good suggestions about the extra lenses

[Gilgenberg]

NEX-7 is nice but as you mentioned low light performance is not good

 

OSS or IBIS:

 

there is a comparison on youtube from a russian guy and he found out that OSS is a little bit better than IBIS

 

IBIS + OSS in combination on a A7RII brings maybe 1/2stop  more  than OSS or IBIS only , but not sure 

 

from NEX-7 to 6300 is 1 - 1,5 stop better + OSS ....hmmmm maybe 4 stops...

 

from NEX-7 to A7S is 4 -5 stops better, so 6000 series with OSS lens brings quite a lot

 

best low light you will have with A7SII, high performance low light sensor + IBIS

 

if low light is you thing and you are used to manual focus:

Voigtländer nokton 35mm 1.2 is a very good low light lens .......but take care the DOF is very small than

 

the SEL 50 1.8 OSS and SEL 35 1.8 OSS are both very good APS-C lenses with high low light performance,

the voigtländer nokton 35mm 1.2  is much sharper than SEL35 open but has no OSS and DOF is very small better at 1.4 or 2.0

 

good lens + OSS + good sensor and you can shot in low light without to much noise, but there is still noise....you can not do magic

 

so the SEL 50 1.8 OSS is really good and sharp .....the 35mm is o.k. but OSS is great

 

if you love APS-C i would recommend you first to try the SEL 50mm 1.8 OSS lens on your NEX-7, it brings close to 3 stops better low light performance + OSS..5 - 6 stops better?

 

it´s a big step to better performance

[JimmyD]

A lot of good advice here, particularly Jonathan's. I have had the A7Rii since it first came out and, as you note, the IQ with the 24-70 f/2.8 is as good as it gets. However, it is a big and heavy combo. I just got the A6500, which is amazing; 98% of what you "give up" with this camera compared to the A7Rii is the extra pixels. I think you will find the IQ of the A6500 with your Sony 28mm f/2 (or the 55mm f/1.8 if you get that) to be worlds ahead of where you are now.

 

To add some focal length for travel / landscape shooting and still stay compact, pick up a used or new Zeiss ZM 85mm f/4 (manual focus Leica M mount lens) and an adapter. I use this lens--which fits in your pocket--with the Techart autofocus adapter, which on the A6500 gives you a 127mm compact, razor sharp autofocus combination.

[EvilTed]

@lefty

 

"Jonathan is right, stabilization in the A6500 will give you the equivalent of a 3-4 stops faster lens. Your f4 becomes the equivalent of f1.4 or faster."

 

Ah no, this is not what Jonathan is saying.

 

Having stabilization of the sensor will allow you to shoot at lower shutter speeds - speeds that would normally require you to shoot with a tripod with an un-stabilized lens.

You DO NOT get a faster lens. 

A faster lens is faster because it lets in more light.

You can get an equivalent exposure using a slower lens (smaller aperture) by keeping it open longer (slower shutter speed), but you don't get a faster lens, with it's shallow depth of field.

If you did, we wouldn't be spending $$$$$ on fast glass, would we?

[Gilgenberg]

also blur from moving subject´s are not cured with IBIS and slower shutter speed 

 

as EvilTed says only a fast lens is a fast lens + a good sensor like the A7S sensor give you the possibility to shoot faster if you want sharp pictures in low light from people

[Dollanganger]

Since it sounds like you already have a fantastic 16-70mm F2.8 Zeiss lens which is suspect is full frame the A7 would seem the logical choice as a full frame SLR will really allow you to use the lens to its full potential.

 

I'd only recommend the a6500 if you didn't have such an amazing lens.