A7R II Initial Impressions/Issues

[FDP]

I work entirely with manual glass, so I have not had a chance to test autofocus capabilities on the A7R II. That being said:

 

The Good:

 

• I have found significant improvements in moiré on the A7R II. I had recently been using the A7II and this had been a problem for me.
• SteadyShot is fantastic. I did not expect this to be that useful with my old manual glass, but it has worked very well and the results are much sharper than I expected.  
• The still image quality is very good. The same could be said of the A7 or A7II, but I have been very satisfied with the quality of images coming off the A7R II.
• Noise at up to ISO 6400 seems good, and the noise profile on this camera is very pleasing compared to Canon DSLRs and Panasonic mirrorless cameras.

 

The Bad:

• I have had my A7R II menu system freak out on me at one point in the past week of testing. Items were rapidly scrolling and the menu was unresponsive. Turning the camera on and off fixed the problem, but I am not thrilled with this happening so soon into owning the camera.
• I have found that out of the box sensor dust is a problem. The camera arrived with dust on the sensor and self clean mode + a blower has not removed it. I had not had this problem with the A7 or A7II, both of which arrived clean and responded well to a blower. I did not expect to have to swab the A7R II on arrival - not the end of the world, but annoying.
•  The lack of ability to assign APS-C/Super35 sensor crop on the functions menu is a problem. I have had to use the Custom Modes to make my seperate Super35/SLog2 Video mode and Full Frame Stills Mode. Surely Sony could have anticipated that users would want these combinations and made them easier to assign from the functions menu.
• Shutter readout/jello shutter has been very disappointing - particularly in Super35 mode.
• You cannot shoot in SLog2 when using the smart remote app and a smartphone/tablet. This is absurd, and basically eliminates the usefulness of the smartremote/wifi functionality for those of us hoping to use it when recording high-quality video. People have been complaining about this since the A7S.

I would hope that Sony would consider fixing the SLog2/smart remote issue and also adding more options to the functions menu.

[Christo25]

Focus is better than the original A7R but no way near as good as all the hype that has been put out there!

[Snowfun]

Does the deficiency relate to focus accuracy, speed, ease of use or range of options (face/eye/tracking etc.)?

[slothead]

I work entirely with manual glass, so I have not had a chance to test autofocus capabilities on the A7R II. That being said:

 

The Good:

 

• I have found significant improvements in moiré on the A7R II. I had recently been using the A7II and this had been a problem for me.
• SteadyShot is fantastic. I did not expect this to be that useful with my old manual glass, but it has worked very well and the results are much sharper than I expected.  
• The still image quality is very good. The same could be said of the A7 or A7II, but I have been very satisfied with the quality of images coming off the A7R II.
• Noise at up to ISO 6400 seems good, and the noise profile on this camera is very pleasing compared to Canon DSLRs and Panasonic mirrorless cameras.

 

The Bad:

• I have had my A7R II menu system freak out on me at one point in the past week of testing. Items were rapidly scrolling and the menu was unresponsive. Turning the camera on and off fixed the problem, but I am not thrilled with this happening so soon into owning the camera.
• I have found that out of the box sensor dust is a problem. The camera arrived with dust on the sensor and self clean mode + a blower has not removed it. I had not had this problem with the A7 or A7II, both of which arrived clean and responded well to a blower. I did not expect to have to swab the A7R II on arrival - not the end of the world, but annoying.
•  The lack of ability to assign APS-C/Super35 sensor crop on the functions menu is a problem. I have had to use the Custom Modes to make my seperate Super35/SLog2 Video mode and Full Frame Stills Mode. Surely Sony could have anticipated that users would want these combinations and made them easier to assign from the functions menu.
• Shutter readout/jello shutter has been very disappointing - particularly in Super35 mode.
• You cannot shoot in SLog2 when using the smart remote app and a smartphone/tablet. This is absurd, and basically eliminates the usefulness of the smartremote/wifi functionality for those of us hoping to use it when recording high-quality video. People have been complaining about this since the A7S.

I would hope that Sony would consider fixing the SLog2/smart remote issue and also adding more options to the functions menu.

 

Thanks for posting this "Initial Impressions" review FDP.  This kind of info is invaluable for those of us considering buying the A7Rii.

In response to your review, I have several comments and questions.

Questions:

1. From your second 'Good' bullet: Is Sony now referring to the A7Rii's IBIS as a new "SteadyShot" function? Or are you referring to the OSS response to a lens you used in this review?

2. From the fourth 'Good' bullet: when comparing the noise level at ISO6400 are you referring to teh same ISO on the Canon and Panny cameras?  And if not what are yiou comparing the ISO6400 noise level to?

3.  From your first 'Bad' bullet: What were you doing when your menu system went bananas? I'm assuming that you were attempting to use the menu system, so what do you recall you were looking at.  Or if not using the menu at the time, what were you doing with the camera?

Comments:

1.  From the second 'Bad' bullet: Dust (or anything) on the sensor is particularly nasty, and even moreso when directly from the manufacturer.  It causes concern about Sony's Quality Control.  More significantly however is that on a camera with IBIS, the cleaning of the sensor is an even gigger problem.  On my Oly OM-D the IBIS prevented easy swabbing of the sensor because that sensor was articulated to implement the IBIS, and any preassure applied to the sensor during cleaning/swabbing created a risk of damaging the IBIS mechanism (so I was told - I altogether avoided cleaning the OM-D sensor due to this complication).  (Is this characteristic the same on the A7Rii?)

I am not familiar with the last three 'Bad' bullets you listed, so I need to do some research before I cna comment on those.

 

Thanks again for your review.

[pilsburypie]

•  The lack of ability to assign APS-C/Super35 sensor crop on the functions menu is a problem. I have had to use the Custom Modes to make my seperate Super35/SLog2 Video mode and Full Frame Stills Mode. Surely Sony could have anticipated that users would want these combinations and made them easier to assign from the functions menu.

So just to clarify, If you are shooting stills in full frame mode, which would be considered the norm on this camera, then go to record video, it would be full frame video automatically?

 

Sounds annoying as if I get this camera, I'd be shooting full frame stills and super 35 video as the norm. I'd have hoped that whenever I selected either option it would go into this desired mode automatically.

[EvanWasHere]

I work entirely with manual glass, so I have not had a chance to test autofocus capabilities on the A7R II. That being said:

 

The Good:

 

• I have found significant improvements in moiré on the A7R II. I had recently been using the A7II and this had been a problem for me.
• SteadyShot is fantastic. I did not expect this to be that useful with my old manual glass, but it has worked very well and the results are much sharper than I expected.  
• The still image quality is very good. The same could be said of the A7 or A7II, but I have been very satisfied with the quality of images coming off the A7R II.
• Noise at up to ISO 6400 seems good, and the noise profile on this camera is very pleasing compared to Canon DSLRs and Panasonic mirrorless cameras.

 

The Bad:

• I have had my A7R II menu system freak out on me at one point in the past week of testing. Items were rapidly scrolling and the menu was unresponsive. Turning the camera on and off fixed the problem, but I am not thrilled with this happening so soon into owning the camera.
• I have found that out of the box sensor dust is a problem. The camera arrived with dust on the sensor and self clean mode + a blower has not removed it. I had not had this problem with the A7 or A7II, both of which arrived clean and responded well to a blower. I did not expect to have to swab the A7R II on arrival - not the end of the world, but annoying.
•  The lack of ability to assign APS-C/Super35 sensor crop on the functions menu is a problem. I have had to use the Custom Modes to make my seperate Super35/SLog2 Video mode and Full Frame Stills Mode. Surely Sony could have anticipated that users would want these combinations and made them easier to assign from the functions menu.
• Shutter readout/jello shutter has been very disappointing - particularly in Super35 mode.
• You cannot shoot in SLog2 when using the smart remote app and a smartphone/tablet. This is absurd, and basically eliminates the usefulness of the smartremote/wifi functionality for those of us hoping to use it when recording high-quality video. People have been complaining about this since the A7S.

I would hope that Sony would consider fixing the SLog2/smart remote issue and also adding more options to the functions menu.

 

I read someone else comment that the menu system freak out happens when you have a non Sony camera grip.  

[FDP]

Hi, 

 So to clarify a bit: 

 

I am shooting in Manual stills mode (M) or switching to "1" or "2", the two custom modes and hitting the video record button instead of the shutter button. I actually noticed today that the custom modes do NOT store the Super35/APS-C crop setting, so this always has to be applied be digging into the menu setting to apply it. Yes, this is very annoying - I HOPE that I am somehow being an idiot and missing something obvious. Please, if you know of another way to do this let me know! So to be clear, the answer to @pilsburypie is yes. 

 

@slothead: by SteadyShot I am referring to IBIS (Sony now calls it this in the menu system, I think they also did on the A7II). This has worked nicely with my Contax and Angenieux 3rd party glass. All of this glass is "dumb".

 

As far as noise I am comparing to Panasonic mirrorless cameras and some slightly older Canon DSLRs (5D mkii and older) that I have used. I haven't used anything released in the past two years by Canon, and certainly not the C300, which I would imagine would hold up well in low-light. I think that Sony is dong a reasonably good job of handling noise in low-light situations. I am amazed by what kind of video and stills I can get away with using a little after-sunset light coming in through a window, even at f2.8, for example.

 

@EvanWasHere, I have no third party grips mounted, only a lens adapter. @slothead, I was scrolling through the custom functions I believe when the freakout happened. The worry I had was that this problem could be related to a sticking button and not the camera firmware. It is actually nice to hear that other users have also had it happen, this means it should hopefully be fixable by Sony. 

 

At this point my plan is to return my body for a replacement, since I kind of expect to have no issues in the first week I use a $3200 body. That being said, I think after a lot of soul searching I am going to stick with the A7Rii as my new camera system. I am both a stills and video shooter, and the stills on this camera are fantastic. The video is good enough to work well for my application, I just wish that Sony would update the wifi remote to allow SLog2.

 

If people are interested I can publish some very poorly controlled tests I did comparing the A7Rii video to the Blackmagic Production Camera (4k, ProRes 4:2:2). The BMPC was obviously better, but the Sony held its own reasonably well, and at 1/10th the data size and a fraction of the physical size & weight it is actually a better solution for my needs. 

[Singingsnapper]

The noise at long exposure is the biggest issue for me.  If you shoot long exposure, you'd best not under expose as it will kill you for it.  I did a 10 minute exposure last night at ISO 200 and f/11.  The shot that came from it was worse than one at 12800 ISO from my 645Z.  I do hope that Sony is able to deal with this in a firmware update, as it doesn't have anything like the flexibility of the Sony sensor in the 645Z.  The shot from last night is unusable - a 7 minute exposure at ISO 50 taken before was useable.  This is the problem with the necessity of using LENR.  

[puffy]

Focus is better than the original A7R but no way near as good as all the hype that has been put out there!

 

This is one of the reasons I'm holding off buying any more full frame mirrorless bodies. Hopefully the A7sII (if it comes out) will be DSLR quick for AF. Rather than buy the A7rII, to supplement my A7r I picked up an A6000 last week (very cheap) to shoot anything that moves, because I have no confidence with the A7r even after a year of shooting with the thing.

 

I reckon (hope) by the third generation this rather crucial issue will be resolved. Because it's all well and good having a myriad of gizmo's but if basics like AF (particularly low light) aren't up to it then it's a no go.

[paddy]

Do you guys know if the image stabilisation works in all 5 axis on manual lenses or just 3 like it is with a7ii?

[Guest knarzschnuffel]

Hi, no, with manual lenses you will get a 3 axis stabilisation ( which is definetely working very well for me !!  ).

[slothead]

That's interesting but it makes sense.  The 4th and 5th 'axes' are probably 'in' and 'out' so the focus would be corrupted without an AF adjustment of the lens.  Thanks for this info.

[slothead]

I read someone else comment that the menu system freak out happens when you have a non Sony camera grip.  

There are probably many non-Sony factors (like the grip) that could make the menu system go belly-up.  And they may each have a slightly different failure effect on the menu.

[FDP]

@Singingsnapper, I agree that the sensor noise in long exposures is a huge frustration. I am hoping that Sony seriously consider the A7RII as the flagship it is. If they issue firmware updates for the easily fixable issues quickly (which would be something of a first for them) this would help make customers feel listened to. Certainly they seem to have burned people a little bit on the A7R (shutter vibration issue) - presumably they want to hang onto the type of customer who would purchase an A7RII body after having an A7R or A7/A7II.

 

Uncompressed RAW was semi-promised by Kimio Maki in that interview he did with Imaging Resource and I can't imagine that they are incapable of coming up with some kind of a solution to the long exposure noise problem. Even just splitting exposures and averaging would be a possible solution (users could do this manually, but it is a PITA). These are not issues that should really be an impediment for a company like Sony; one has to wonder whether they perhaps exist by choice and whether the amount of kickback from users will determine the fate of future fixes. The big question for potential customers is whether or not to bet that Sony will continue to improve the camera in a timely manner with firmware updates.

 

Part of Sony's strategy in the digital cinema market was to try to force customers to either upgrade to the next body up (e.g. FS700 to F5 to F55) by omitting features, or to try to make extra cash in paid firmware updates and "unlocked" features. Of course they probably can't do the latter (paid upgrades) in the stills market without a customer revolt. One could presume that Sony may be kicking the bucket as much as possible and trying to get people to upgrade bodies every year, but that might lose them the customers they want to retain the most.

 

My personal bet is that Sony will indeed take the A7RII seriously post-launch and put effort into keeping it at the top of the sales charts. I just worry that some of the more annoying issues that I have (menus, SLog2 over wifi) are not being complained about by enough people to make it into any future updates. There is 0% change that Sony will fix anything if they only hear from ~3 people that it is a problem. For me it is a good enough camera to justify the purchase (Great stills, decent video), but I would probably not invest again in the ecosystem without further signs that they will support this camera long term.

 

As for autofocus, like I said, I just don't shoot with AF lenses, so for me the presence or lack of a solid AF has never been a selling point for a camera body. The only reason I can think of for a good AF solution would be to use in video mode on a camera gimbal, but even then I'd much rather have someone pull focus manually via a remote or just lock focus and close down the f-stop a bit. Of course Sony can't build a camera for everyone - what makes me happy might be a deal killer for another customer. 

 

@slothead, on the stabilization front the viewfinder focus is rock-solid when IBIS is on and pictures are sharp. This was a total shock to me, as I assumed there would be some penalty (and I never used IBIS on the A7II), but I learned quickly that I could leave SteadyShot/IBIS on and have great results. What is interesting is that viewfinder focus is actually kind of a mess for me in Super35 crop mode. It's hard to explain, but it almost seems like there is an astigmatism introduced into the image, and nothing ever quite looks sharp. The actual footage seems fine, so I see this as a minor annoyance that I "fixed" by turning focus peaking on.

[Singingsnapper]

For me, long exposure noise is a MUCH bigger issue than the raw issue.  And as the biggest draw for this camera is landscape this is a huge issue.  To me the raw issue in most cases is a gearhead rather than a photographer problem.  The long exposure noise issue will force me to keep LENR off and to remove the hot pixels in post.  The 645Z has far more latitude in shadows in this situation, and hot pixels exist but are easier to deal with.  It's less of a problem if you are shooting where there aren't too many shadows.  I don't mind using NR in post as absolute sharpness isn't necessarily the be all and end all for me, as long as it is reasonably sharp...

[Jamooche]

 

The Bad:

• I have found that out of the box sensor dust is a problem. The camera arrived with dust on the sensor and self clean mode + a blower has not removed it. I had not had this problem with the A7 or A7II, both of which arrived clean and responded well to a blower. I did not expect to have to swab the A7R II on arrival - not the end of the world, but annoying.

 

I too found I had to clean the sensor in the first week owning this camera.  I don't think I cleaned my 5DIII once in the 3 years I owned it.  I used the Zeeion blower which got most of the dust off, but also had to use the Arctic Butterfly to get the rest.  I like this method much better than using a wet method.

 

More info here:  http://visibledust.com/

[Singingsnapper]

This is what a Sony sensor can do.  This is with a viveza filter, plus post processing Grad in place, but NO noise reduction inputs or in camera.  13.5 minute exposure. +1.25 in exposure and +48 shadows, plus lightening in the grad of 20.  There are some hot pixels, but they are tiny, and I could live with them without getting rid of them, but using the brush in dfine eliminates them completely...

 

The shot is from Pentax 645Z with an FA 45 - 85mm f/4.5 at ISO 100

 

Screen Shot 2015-08-17 at 14.14.03 by singingsnapper, on Flickr

 

Full size here:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/singingsnapper/20468013769/sizes/o/

 

and the file has also been cropped down from 51.1 mp to 30....

 

So Sony sensor CAN do it....

[puffy]

I too found I had to clean the sensor in the first week owning this camera.  I don't think I cleaned my 5DIII once in the 3 years I owned it.  I used the Zeeion blower which got most of the dust off, but also had to use the Arctic Butterfly to get the rest.  I like this method much better than using a wet method.

 

More info here:  http://visibledust.com/

 

This is normal for mirrorless cameras. Friends with EM1's to Leica M's have the same problem.

[Jamooche]

This is normal for mirrorless cameras. Friends with EM1's to Leica M's have the same problem.

Thanks, I figured that much.  It's much easier to do than a DSLR because the sensor is not as deep inside.    I can't seem to figure out what "Cleaning Mode" does.  My guess is that it does the sensor vibration dust reduction thing before you turn the camera off and clean the sensor but the Help Guide doesn't say. 

[puffy]

Thanks, I figured that much.  It's much easier to do than a DSLR because the sensor is not as deep inside.    I can't seem to figure out what "Cleaning Mode" does.  My guess is that it does the sensor vibration dust reduction thing before you turn the camera off and clean the sensor but the Help Guide doesn't say. 

 

Be careful when wet cleaning. Do not saturate the sensor glass with cleaning fluid (like I did once). It got behind the glass!!! Thought. Oh well, that's that then. But it was a very high quality optical cleaning fluid and evaporated out quikcly seemingly leaving no residue. Phew!!!

 

Remember, it's only a bit of glass you're cleaning and you will find it needs cleaning quite regularly. But still needs to be done with care (I have to be in the right mood at the time).

 

I use Eclipse Optical Cleaning Fluid with sensor swabs and a SensorKlear (it's like a micro Lenspen) to polish up. Also recommend a powerful blower like the Giottos Rocket Blower and a proper sensor brush.

 

EDIT: Don't know the effect on the IBIS on this cleaning procedure, so best ask a professional first.

[Jamooche]

Be careful when wet cleaning. Do not saturate the sensor glass with cleaning fluid (like I did once). It got behind the glass!!! Thought. Oh well, that's that then. But it was a very high quality optical cleaning fluid and evaporated out quikcly seemingly leaving no residue. Phew!!!

 

Remember, it's only a bit of glass you're cleaning and you will find it needs cleaning quite regularly. But still needs to be done with care (I have to be in the right mood at the time).

 

I use Eclipse Optical Cleaning Fluid with sensor swabs and a SensorKlear (it's like a micro Lenspen) to polish up. Also recommend a powerful blower like the Giottos Rocket Blower and a proper sensor brush.

 

EDIT: Don't know the effect on the IBIS on this cleaning procedure, so best ask a professional first.

Yes I agree...wet cleaning sounds scary.  I've never actually done that on any camera sensor.  I plan to just regularly blow and brush it  so hopefully it won't need wet cleaning. 

[puffy]

Yes I agree...wet cleaning sounds scary.  I've never actually done that on any camera sensor.  I plan to just regularly blow and brush it  so hopefully it won't need wet cleaning. 

 

Giottos rocket blower and a proper sensor brush first . . . like this  . . . 

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dust-Patrol-D-SLR-Multiplier-Sensors/dp/B001B9RI5O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1439833057&sr=8-1&keywords=sensor+brush

 

Never ever touch the bristles. Always keep it in the plastic pouch thingy. 

 

For a wet clean, thinking about the new IBIS mcfugglywotnot, I'd take it to a specialist first.

 

The trouble is sensor dirt is a fact of life for mirrorless cameras. 

 

I'd also recommend these hair bands to seal up the mount<>lens a bit more . . . 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/36-Endless-Snag-Free-Hair-Bobbles-Girls-Hair-Accessory-Hair-Bands-Elastics-/321659930997?var=510560948146&hash=item4ae46d0975

 

I use these on the A7r even with the Fotodiox Tough-E Mount fitted. I think it was down to light leak but they're a good way of adding protection too.

[slothead]

Generally it's not a big deal, I've done it many times on Nikon DX ad FX sensors without incident, but these IBIS sensors may be tricker (I've never cleaned an IBIS).

[Jamooche]

It's expensive, but I really like this brush and the head is replaceable:

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/712189-REG/Visible_Dust_5964480_Arctic_Butterfly_724_Super.html

 

I have an older Zeeion blower, but they are all ridiculously expensive now, so I won't even post the link. 

[slothead]

It's expensive, but I really like this brush and the head is replaceable:

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/712189-REG/Visible_Dust_5964480_Arctic_Butterfly_724_Super.html

 

I have an older Zeeion blower, but they are all ridiculously expensive now, so I won't even post the link. 

 

Jamil,

How do you use this thing?  The B&H page says "Use with DSLRs with Cleaning Systems" which may (depending on brand and model) employ vibration and eV charging to get charged (or uncharged) contaminants off of the sensor.  So how does this Artic Butterfly work with those systems?  Does it charge the blown air (probably like what the Zeeion thing does based on its name) to help move the contaminant?    (And why on Earth do these posts take out my spaces between sentences?)