What lens best suits my needs?

[rushie]

Hi guys,

 

Very much a newbie to photography and struggling to get my head around things.

 

I received a Sony a5000 for my birthday last year and I've been struggling to get it to do what I want it to with the kit lens it came with. I can't really tell if it's me or the lens, or a combination of both. I have been able to get a couple of great shots, but they mostly still seem like flukes in one of the pre-selected modes.

 

I have an 11 year old cat, a 5 year old Dalmatian and a 22 month old toddler. My focus is primarily to capture images of my son and pets - sometimes individually but sometimes together. More often than not, the a5000 is used indoors (hence low light); unless we're out/traveling as a family, in which case I would be using my a5000 outdoors as well (as my husband can provide the much-needed second set of hands in case of an emergency).

 

I would really like to achieve beautiful portraits (with a out of focus/blurred background) but can't seem to get done satisfactorily unless the background is really far away (regardless of what manual settings I try).

I'm guess I'm here to try and work out how to better use my camera (and kit lens) but also determine if I need a new lens (and if so what?) to achieve my goal of blurred backgrounds (since my birthday is around the corner).

I would really like it to be my default camera (as opposed to my fallback and fail-safe iPhone) and would be grateful to anyone who could point me at the right threads or provide any helpful information.

 

So in summary:

Camera - a5000 (E PZ 16-50mm F3.5-5.6 OSS lens)

Primary objective - blurry background portraits

Secondary objective - artistic subject and surroundings

Subject/muse - perpetually moving toddler and pets

Location: Melbourne, Australia
 

Would either of the following lens be appropriate if it is the lens that's the problem?

E 50mm F1.8 OSS (SEL50F18B)
E 35mm F1.8 OSS (Model: SEL35F18)
 

 

[LiveShots]

The blurry background (bokeh) is caused by a shallow depth of field. The depth of field is controlled by the aperture. The bigger the aperture the narrower the depth of field. An F1.8 has a bigger aperture than an F3.5.

 

Lenses with a smaller f-stop number are typically more expensive than those with a higher number.

 

Either of the two F1.8 lens will give you the effect you want, put the camera into Aperture mode and you can control the aperture (the camera will set the shutter speed for you).

 

You may want to try Aperture Mode with your existing lens and set it to the lowest F number that you can for a bigger aperture and see if that works for you.

[rushie]

Thanks. I've tried a couple of times setting the aperture, especially in my son's bedroom to try and get more light in without having to use the flash, to no avail. It seems the kit lens needs to have so many things working in it's favour to produce what I'm after. Again, I'm not sure if this is just me and my lack of experience or the lens (or just being a terrible photographer hahah).

 

So this is an example of what I'm trying to achieve (with F3.5) but in order to do this with the kit lens I had to get incredibly close - which is fine when the kids (human and fur) are sleeping but impossible if they are awake. Is it possible to get good degree bokeh (or even control the degree of bokeh) with a F1.8 at a good distance away from the subject?

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[LiveShots]

Assuming a 55mm lens at F1.8 (these numbers are estimates), the lower the depth of field the more intense blurriness 

 

At 5 feet the depth of field will be just .17 feet

At 10 feet  the depth of field will be .7 feet

At 15 feet the depth of field will be 1.6 feet

At 20 feet the depth of field will be 2.8 feet

 

So the further away the subject the wider the depth of field and the less bokeh you will see. Although your subjects may be far away, the resolution of the camera will let you crop in quite a bit. If you are zoomed out with your current lens at 50mm at F3.5 then these are the depth of field numbers, again very rough estimates;

 

 

At 5 feet the depth of field will be just .4 feet

At 10 feet  the depth of field will be 1.7 feet

At 15 feet the depth of field will be 3.9 feet

At 20 feet the depth of field will be 7.1 feet

 

The difference is significant as you can see, the 55mm 1.8 will go from .17-2.8 feet from 5-20 feet, while your current lens will be around .4-7 feet depth of field over the same distances.

 

One option that may work for you is to see if a local camera shop will rent you a lens for a few days so you can try it out.

[LiveShots]

There are some Depth of Field apps for the iPhone that may help as they will give you some numbers that you can play around with…

[Amfibius]

Rushie, thanks for stating your objectives so clearly. It is rare to find people on any forum who are so clear as to what they want!

 

To get that 3D effect with the blurred background, this is what you need: 

 

- Aperture. The bigger, the better. For portraits, think f/1.8 or less (if you have a short lens). 

 

- Focal length. Longer lenses will produce more blurry out of focus areas. Portrait lenses that produce out of focus backgrounds are typically 85mm - 200mm. 

 

- Lens design. Some lenses will naturally have a faster transition to out of focus areas. Leica and Zeiss are particularly known for this effect. 

 

- Background. As you have noticed, the further away the background, the more pronounced the effect. 

 

Unfortunately, the first 3 costs money, sometimes BIG MONEY. This is why people obsess over lenses like the new 85/1.4, the Zeiss Batis, the 135/1.8, and so on.

 

The last one is all about composition. It may be possible to take a picture of your wife standing up with mountains in the background, but not so easy with your baby or your dog. You could perhaps take your baby to a wide open space, place him/her on a chair, and shoot with the background far away. If I were you, I would choose the 50mm focal length (equivalent to 75mm in 35mm format) with the lowest f/stop possible (f/5.6 in your case) for best results. 

 

Or better still, buy a fast prime lens. The more money you spend, the higher the potential for great portraits - you get a lens that is sharp wide open, with creamy smooth backgrounds. This is what we all want ... if we had the money. 

[rushie]

Thanks guys.

 

As a novice, price is prohibitive. Are there different brands which are compatible with the a5000 or just the Sony version? Otherwise my only two options will be the F1.8 in either 35mm or 50mm (with 50mm being probably what I'd go for).

[joshinthecity]

When in doubt.

50mm (equiv in your case) prime 

Always.

 

j.

[Ben]

If you can live with manual focus, there are a lot of old lenses you can adapt. Here is a link to some comparisons of 50mm lenses.

 

http://www.verybiglobo.com/50mm-f1-4-legacy-lenses-shootout-wide-open/

 

Hope this helps,

 

Ben

[Pieter]

Hi Rushie,

 

I can assure you: it's not your doing. The aperture of the 16-50 kit lens is much too small to get pleasing background separation, especially on the long end.

 

As a portrait lens with blurry background, you really can't go wrong with the Sony 50 f/1.8. I bought it a couple of months ago for my a6000 and am quite amazed by the quality of the background blur (I guess it's due to the absence of aspherical elements). Also, specular highlights are rendered exceptionally smooth and the OSS helps quite a lot in dim conditions. It seems the Sigma 60 mm f/2.8 is quite nice as well: razor sharp and cheaper than the Sony, but lacks stabilisation and for portraiture I preferred pleasing bokeh over resolution.

 

For group shots, you might need something wider. I'm really happy with the Sony Zeiss 24 f/1.8, but if price is prohibitive, that one is not an option. I guess the Sony 35 f/1.8 will be a safe bet then but in my opinion it's still too long for indoor groupshots. Have you considered the 55-210 f/4.5-6.3? It's useless indoors due to the long focal length and small aperture, but if you have kids and pets running around the yard it will give give pleasing portraits especially on the long end. The zoom helps a bit in framing the action.

 

If you'd have to pick one, I'd go for the 50 f/1.8: it's the most complementary to the kit lens (regarding your requirements) and will be very satisfactory for its price.

[Lioneye]

The 50 mm 1.8 is on sale at Amazon USA for $248 USD. And SAR says there's a $50 Sony rebate, whether that's already figured in, or comes off this price I can't say. I don't know what this would be in Australia. As everyone said above, this lens (in 35mm terms) works out to about 75 mm in effect, a fairly good portrait length for the money. And I think that's a really good price considering the 35mm/f 1.8 runs about $450 or so USD. The 55mm Sony 1.8 appears to be going for about $1,000 USD, a really nice lens, but pricy for beginners.

 

Whatever system I'm in, and I'm currently between systems waiting for an a6300 in March, I love a good 50mm prime 'cause it works for you when all else fails.

 

Good shooting to you!

[rushie]

Thanks guys. You've all been very helpful

Atm and going into winter here, we will be taking a lot of indoor snaps especially for my son's second birthday in April. I'm still umm-ing and ahh-ing between the 35 and 50 though... I'm not sure why. Everything and everyone has been telling me the 50 will suit my immediate needs, and like you said Lioneye, it works when all else fails. But there is just that nagging what if about the wideness you get from the 35. Problem is, I will never know unless I buy one and try it myself, right?

 

I will keep reading and looking. There is still time before my birthday

[LiveShots]

The 20Mb sensor of the A5000 will let you crop in quite a lot and still get very sharp photos; You may want to try taking some shot with the 16-50mm with the focal length set at 35mm and then try cropping them down. If you still get a usable image then the 35mm may be a good bet, especially as the sharpness may be a little better with the wider aperture that the prime lens will give you. 

[rushie]

The 20Mb sensor of the A5000 will let you crop in quite a lot and still get very sharp photos; You may want to try taking some shot with the 16-50mm with the focal length set at 35mm and then try cropping them down. If you still get a usable image then the 35mm may be a good bet, especially as the sharpness may be a little better with the wider aperture that the prime lens will give you. 

Sorry to be a complete newb, but how exactly would I do that (set the focal lent to 35mm)?

 

We are visiting a friend's 'farm' tomorrow with our son so it would a great opportunity to have a really good play with the camera and kit lens

[LiveShots]

On my A6000 when I zoom in or out (using the wide/tele slider on the lens) there is a small display in the upper right corner of the viewfinder that shows the focal length (in mm). It only shows while zooming in and out and then it disappears when I stop moving the slider.

[Austerror]

Don't forget the A5000 has an APS-C sized sensor.  Multiply the focal length of your lenses by 1.5x.

 

Don't worry about why and how for now.  But the 35mm will 'see' about the equivalent of 50mm on a full frame camera.  The 50mm will be about 75mm.

 

Both of those lenses are excellent. The 35mm is a little more excellent from what I have heard.  However, the 50mm 1.8 was basically made to the the portrait lens for the E mount.  I own the 50mm, I have used it for portraits, with my old Nex-7 and there is nothing to complain about.  I got mine from JB Hifi, which for some reason was cheaper than Amazon....

http://kurtmunger.com/sony_nex_50mm_f_1_8id320.html

Check that review for details on the lens.  The same website has a review of the 35mm.

 

One 'feature' to keep in mind when buying any lens is the minimum focal distance.  This is the shortest distance from camera to subject that the lens can focus. The 50mm has a minimum focal distance of 30cm.  This may be a problem if your indoors spaces are on the smaller side.  The 35mm 24cm from end of lens to subject.

 

Also, being a beginner with a small budget, look into shooting in RAW instead of JPEG.  Download and install the FREE version of Phase One's Capture 1 for Sony.  Excellent post processing software that is free if you own a Sony camera. Being able to do some simple edits after the photo has been taken can really make your photos pop.  As they say, take it to the next level....or 3. Works with JPEG also, but not as well as RAW.

[Golem]

And don't forget there isn't any f/3.5 at 50mm

using the kit lens ... not even any f/4.5. It's at

f/5.6 fully open. Usually we say "wide open",

but I nixed that. There is nothing "wide open"

about f/5.6 on a 1.5X short tele.

[Golem]

Your gear is more than adequate for your

intentions. AAMOF additional gear is not

likely to help.

 

 

18mm on APSC, aperture is f/9 [eff nyne].

Picture is somewhat cropped, so the real

format size is more like 4/3", thus the view

is approximately equal to 35mm lens on a

full frame camera.

 

 

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Once the kids are awake and active, you will

be defeated by your own lust for bokeh. If you

can't keep them in focus at f/3.5 things only

get worse at f/1.8 ......

 

Bokeh does not solve problems of distractions

in the background. Only point of view could do

that, and do it with enuf DOF to keep your kids

in focus, and to give the shots a semblance of

place and of reality.

[Guest all8]

Thanks guys. You've all been very helpful

 

Atm and going into winter here, we will be taking a lot of indoor snaps especially for my son's second birthday in April. I'm still umm-ing and ahh-ing between the 35 and 50 though... I'm not sure why. Everything and everyone has been telling me the 50 will suit my immediate needs, and like you said Lioneye, it works when all else fails. But there is just that nagging what if about the wideness you get from the 35. Problem is, I will never know unless I buy one and try it myself, right?

 

Hi guys,

 

 

Camera - a5000 (E PZ 16-50mm F3.5-5.6 OSS lens)

Primary objective - blurry background portraits

Secondary objective - artistic subject and surroundings

Subject/muse - perpetually moving toddler and pets

Location: Melbourne, Australia

 

 

 

 

Question is will the 35 achieve any of your objectives ... probably not. But a 50 with fast AF will. Even the Sony Zeiss 55mm f1.8 might be worth considering, or at least trying

[Golem]

Sure hope you intend to keep the kit lens

if you do acquire a 50. You'll need its

wide angle range for some of the subjects

you have mentioned.