Flash

[PuffinPicture]

I have an A7 with a Sony HVL-F60M Flash. I want that flash beast to work off camera. 

 

I'm thinking of buying 2 Sony HVL-F20Ms to get the following set:

- 1  Sony HVL-F20M to use on camera for indirect lighting my model AND for triggering the other 2 flashes

- the Sony HVL-F60M Flash (as a wireless slave) as most important flash to lighten my model from the side

- the other Sony HVL-F20M (as a wireless slave) behind the model to lighten the white background.

 

Will this set work without any other trigger (and without any cable)?

In other words, will the on camera Sony HVL-F20M trigger both others flashes wireless?

 

PS Will the HVL-F20M supply enough light (from 1 meter or less distance from the white background to lighten that sufficiently?

 

 

[michelb]

The HVL-F20 ( M or AM ) will NOT work in WL mode off camera. Even with remote triggers they have issues.

List of flashes that will work as remote flashes:

HVL-F32M, F43M, F60M

And if you don't mind buying older tech flashes that use the Minolta Sony Autolock shoe: Minolta 3600HSD, 5600HSD, Sony HVL-F36AM, F42AM, F43AM, F56AM, F58AM.

Note these older ones will require an adapter to mount on camera and the F42AM will probably need mounting on camera to get set-up properly as a wireless remote. In addition, some have limited manual power settings capability ( Minolta 3600HSD Sony HVL-F36AM ) Also note some of these will not allow ratio settings ( since it seems that the A7,A7r and A7s can not manage ratio lighting but i have yet to test myself to confirm this)

 

see link here for a full list of compatibilities and explanations: http://mhohner.de/sony-minolta/flashcomp_setups.php#wireless

[Austerror]

Short answer is : No.

 

first check the specs for the HVL-F20M, I don't think they can operate as a wireless slave.  Only the wireless controller.

 

What I use is a flash on the camera as the controller, then I have two old Minolta flashes as slaves.  They need to be 'D' flashes.  One flash and a reflector might be able to do the job. But it depends on what effect you are looking for.

 

I've used this method with my NEX-7 and A-99, works great.

[michelb]

 They need to be 'D' flashes.  

 Watch out for the Minolta 2500D: Can not work in wireless (nor HSS) but then it is quite rare.

[PuffinPicture]

Thank you all for your answers!

 

I understand that I can use

1. the HVL-F20M on camera as a controller and

2. my HVL-F60M (off camera) as a slave.

 

3. For the third flash (to light up the background) I have to find another flash that can work as a slave. (I might try a reflector first, as @Austerror suggested, but let's presume in this topic that does not supply enough light.)

This third flash (off camera) may be an older type. For this third one I'd like not to spend the whole gold sack, but a modest price is OK for it. So the HVL-F32M or higher... I'd like to skip.

That means a second hand Minolta seems a good idea. I can try to get one of the flashes that you mention:

- (@michelb) Minolta 3600HSD, 5600HSD, Sony HVL-F36AM, F42AM, F43AM, F56AM, F58AM

- (@Austerror) any Minolta-'D' flash, but (@michelb) not the 2500D.

Three more questions on these flashes:

a. As I will use this third flash only off camera and as a slave, am I right that I don't need an adapter then?

b. What about other brands, like Metz for Sony/Minolta, or other?

c. Will the on camera HVL-F20M as a master indeed control both other flashes together correctly?

[IanL]

a. Wrong.  Minolta/Sony remote flashes need to be set to the channel in use for controlling.  The procedure requires that each of them be mounted on the camera in turn to do this.  Download the flash  user manual from the Sony site to read up.

 

b.  Metz for Sony will work, and I think work on all channels, so do not require the above process (downside is they could be triggered by another close-by Sony user).

 

c.  Yes, the F20M and the camera are not capable of detecting how many remote flashes are in use, and treat them all as one.

[PuffinPicture]

Thank you for your clear answer, @IanL!

 

I found the Metz Mecablitz 44 AF-1 for Sony @just over half the price of a Sony Sony HVL-F36M . 

Seems to do the job as a wireless third flash (as a slave) without any adapter. Am I right?

[michelb]

a. Wrong.  Minolta/Sony remote flashes need to be set to the channel in use for controlling.  The procedure requires that each of them be mounted on the camera in turn to do this.  Download the flash  user manual from the Sony site to read up.

 

b.  Metz for Sony will work, and I think work on all channels, so do not require the above process (downside is they could be triggered by another close-by Sony user).

 

c.  Yes, the F20M and the camera are not capable of detecting how many remote flashes are in use, and treat them all as one.

 

a. There is a procedure in each instruction manual that describes how to change to WL, change channels and more without mounting on camera. The F42AM seems to be the most fussy in this regards and often requires mounting on camera. Each model has its own procedure so it may look a bit complicated at first. All the other Minolta Sony models  (and i have tried all of them except the new 32M ) works and can be re-adjusted off camera. In any case i think the F20M can only work on Channel 1 so it simplifies these adjustments.

 

b. The Metz should work as long as they are not from the older AF SLR era ( before digital)

 

 

 

Thank you for your clear answer, @IanL!

 

I found the Metz Mecablitz 44 AF-1 for Sony @just over half the price of a Sony Sony HVL-F36M . 

Seems to do the job as a wireless third flash (as a slave) without any adapter. Am I right?

Are you talking about the model with the new MIS shoe ? Around 199$

 

You could get a used Minolta 3600HSD for 100-125$ or less if you are lucky (same as Sony HVL-F36AM ) Downside is no Manual mode that allows power level adjustments.

[PuffinPicture]

Yes, @michelb, the Metz with the new MI-shoe. In The Netherlands for 158 euro, slightly cheaper than $199.

 

Alternative is the very cheap Falcon Eyes Slave flash E27 88Ws SS-88...!

[michelb]

Yes, @michelb, the Metz with the new MI-shoe. In The Netherlands for 158 euro, slightly cheaper than $199.

 

Alternative is the very cheap Falcon Eyes Slave flash E27 88Ws SS-88...!

This Falcon Eyes has no TTL and will be a pain to use because of the pre-flash that most cameras are sending before exposure takes place. 

It will also not allow you to use both your F60 and the falcon eyes together in WL mode.

 

These are from the much older generation of Wireless flash where the release of a flash would trigger other flashes but only in manual mode and this is a pain to use since new cameras/flashes/lenses now talk to one another and often make a pre-flash to help adjust automated settings.

 

To use this and make it work (and in the end it may not work at all) will make you fiddle with so many adjustments, you will be another of these saying flash is too complicated.

 

Assuming you want to go this route, every time you will want to use this, you will need to:

- Find a flash that mounts on your camera and does no pre-flash and this flash will not communicate with the camera except for the actual trigger action

- Use manual and fixed ISO setting

- Work in M mode on your camera hoping you know what you are doing

- Set white balance to Flash or daylight since the camera won't know there is a flash on there

- Adjust aperture to provide proper exposure (want to buy a Flash meter in addition to all of this ?)

- to use your F60, find an optical sensor to mount it on so it may work

 

I would definitely stick with the 44AF1 route ( or other Sony/Minolta compatible listed above)

[PuffinPicture]

That's a great help, @michelb, thank you! This Falcon Eyes is discarded :-).

 

My solution seems to be:

- on camera the HVL-F20M

- off camera the HVL-F60M that I already own

- off camera the Metz Mecablitz 44 AF-1 for Sony.

 

Does anyone see a problem in this set?

Thank you all for your help!

[Cheatah]

I am using successfully an tiny NISSIN i40 on my Sony A7! Works great!

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[michelb]

I looked at the instruction manual for the Metz 44AF-1 Digital and it does not support HSS ( High speed synch) so your usage in WL will be limited to up to X-synch speed ( 1/250 sec in the case of the a7). It is not that important but should you want to use WL flash in daylight, this will be a limiting factor.

 

Just so you know beforehand

[PuffinPicture]

Thanks @Cheatah and @michelb

 

HSS is not supported by the Sony HVL-F20M as the controller as well...

[Austerror]

Wait a minute,

 

Perhaps I don't understand exactly what is going on here.  But I use 2 off camera flashes, old Minolta brand D flashes and I don't need to mount them on my camera to program them.  On the back of the flash I use the controls to set wireless channel 1 and slave function (which is the channel I'm using), then I can start shooting.

 

This works both on my Nex-7 and the A99.  The only thing I need to do on camera is make sure it is set to wireless so which ever flash I have on the camera knows it is the controller.

 

I have an older Minolta *not* D flash and that does not work as a remote flash. The wet film flashes work on a different wireless language apparently. But when mounted on the camera as primary flash I get full function (solo flash not wireless controller).

3600HSD, 5600HSD are the remote flashes I use.  They both came with clip on stands and I also have adapter for light stands.

[IanL]

I think I can explain this.  If your remote flashes are set to channel 1, and the camera happens to be set to channel 1, then all will  usually be well.  The problem arises if the camera has previously used with a flash on another channel.  The only way to change the channel on the camera is to mount the flash on it and half-press the shutter release.

 

The Minolta "not D" flash will work on the shoe, but not in TTL mode.  It will work on the fixed power it is set to, and you will have to vary aperture and ISO to get correct exposure.

[Mark Galer]

I have created several tutorial movies about using the HVL-F20M as the wireless controller and the HVl-F60M as the wireless remote.

 

https://youtu.be/Yh4jdar_r-Q

https://youtu.be/znzZ518Xaso

 

Check out all of my videos on the Alpha Creative Skills YouTube channel

[Austerror]

I think I can explain this.  If your remote flashes are set to channel 1, and the camera happens to be set to channel 1, then all will  usually be well.  The problem arises if the camera has previously used with a flash on another channel.  The only way to change the channel on the camera is to mount the flash on it and half-press the shutter release.

 

The Minolta "not D" flash will work on the shoe, but not in TTL mode.  It will work on the fixed power it is set to, and you will have to vary aperture and ISO to get correct exposure.

I have a 5400HS not D flash and it works in TTL mode on my A99.  I have, however, verified that it does not work as a wireless slave.

[wruss]

I am using successfully an tiny NISSIN i40 on my Sony A7! Works great!

I too just purchased the Nissan i40 flash. Excellent flash with TT-L and HSS and I see this summer they are coming out with a flash and transmitter. (radio) combination for Sony A7 series. 

[JoeriPeeters]

I too just purchased the Nissan i40 flash. Excellent flash with TT-L and HSS and I see this summer they are coming out with a flash and transmitter. (radio) combination for Sony A7 series. 

 

+1. The Nissin i40 rocks!

[arturw]

Thanks @Cheatah and @michelb

 

HSS is not supported by the Sony HVL-F20M as the controller as well...

 

You are wrong.    Its VERY supported. Even using Sony HVL-F20AM through ADP-MAA Shoe Adapter. Nothing said about it in manual, but it's working. 

Sony A7 , HVL-F20AM Control, HVL-F36AM WL Slave, 1/1000 sec , f/5.6

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[alevka]

Wait a minute,

 

Perhaps I don't understand exactly what is going on here.  But I use 2 off camera flashes, old Minolta brand D flashes and I don't need to mount them on my camera to program them.  On the back of the flash I use the controls to set wireless channel 1 and slave function (which is the channel I'm using), then I can start shooting.

 

This works both on my Nex-7 and the A99.  The only thing I need to do on camera is make sure it is set to wireless so which ever flash I have on the camera knows it is the controller.

 

I have an older Minolta *not* D flash and that does not work as a remote flash. The wet film flashes work on a different wireless language apparently. But when mounted on the camera as primary flash I get full function (solo flash not wireless controller).

 

3600HSD, 5600HSD are the remote flashes I use.  They both came with clip on stands and I also have adapter for light stands.

Could you please explain in detail how you do it?

Whatever I do with my a99, I simply can't make the 5600HSD flash though in WL mode.

HEEEELP!!

[joms]

Can the OPs problem be solved with 2x Nissin i40? One will be the controller and the other one the slave to light the back portion?

[michelb]

Could you please explain in detail how you do it?

Whatever I do with my a99, I simply can't make the 5600HSD flash though in WL mode.

HEEEELP!!

 

First you need a controller flash: Either HVL-F20M, F32m, F43M or F60M mounted on camera. OR using Sony ADP-MAA adapter: HVL-F20AM, F43AM or F58AM

 

Only these above will work as control units on you body to control other WL compatible flash units which includes your Minolta 5600HS(D) 

Minolta/Sony flashes that are digital compatible in WL mode can be seen here with their compatibility: http://mhohner.de/sony-minolta/flashcomp_setups.php#wireless