Frustrated with 7 III + 100 GM

[Antonio Correia]

I am a bit frustrated with the A7 III + 100 GM

Working with a GM lenses and limiting the ISO to 5.000 the results are not spectacular but rather modest, instead.

Look at the quantity of noise in this image which I enlarged to 2:1. Isn't that huge ?
I accept that it is supposed to be my own problem because I don't photograph correctly.

I still have the Oly 5 Mk II with also great lenses. This Sony, with this lens is not better that the Oly with the 42.5 f/1.4. Perhaps it's only me. Am I being too demanding ???
 

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Edited June 8, 2019 by Antonio Correia

[LiveShots]

The 100GM requires a lot of light if you are not shooting outdoors on a sunny day, then you need to use a flash. 

[Antonio Correia]

12 minutes ago, LiveShots said:

The 100GM requires a lot of light if you are not shooting outdoors on a sunny day, then you need to use a flash. 

Excuse me, but that is a very poor excuse.
As I have also bought the 135mm GM I will see what I can get with 1.8 or 2.8 or whatever in this very scenario/place.

Tomorrow !
Have I been trapped by Sony ?
We will see. But what I see so far is very sad.

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[Antonio Correia]

Same light. same bad results ! @ 5.6

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[Pieter]

Again you fail to grasp the essence of this lens and the technical aspects of photography... Your Oly lens is an f/1.4, the Sony is a T/5.6. That's 4 stops of difference, meaning you can shoot your Oly at iso 320 in the same lighting conditions. Even when taking into account the smaller sensor area, (roughly 2 stops of disadvantage in light gathering for the Oly compared to the Sony) of course it will have better noise performance than your A7iii at iso 5000! Your frustration with this lens is really your own doing.

To me the images look pretty darn clean for iso 5000 viewed at 200%... It's really the best one can hope for in a camera at this moment. If you want less iso noise, your 135/1.8 should work wonders.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Pieter

[Antonio Correia]

OK Pieter I do accept my limitation.
Let's see tomorrow what I can do with the 135 f/1.8 GM and we will see how the camera behaves.
Better: which mistakes I do with this combo.

All my fault I know. Thank you for commenting.

Have a nice week-end

[Pieter]

Glad you took my rather blunt comment in a constructive way: it was ment as such. Like I said in your other thread, the 100mm GM is really a specialty lens and most people who buy it do so after thorough research and for specific purposes. The 100mm GM really is not a general purpose portrait lens and not suited for everyone. Based on your posts I doubt you appreciate it's specific character as well.

For a fair assessment of noise performance, try the Sony 100mm wide open versus the Olympus stopped down to f/5.6 and tell us how you appreciate the difference.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Pieter
typo

[Antonio Correia]

Thank you Pieter !
It's OK but you could give me some tips on how to take the best out of this exquisite lens...
Thank you !

[Deeliciouz]

From my prospect, shooting at 5000 iso is non sense in this case. Seeing your exifs, the 1/125th speed is rational given the poor indoor light conditions. 1/60th should be avoided for sharp stills unless you have a tripod and/or a speedlight, and a slow-moving subject. 

The point is your lens is a fast 2.8 prime. You should have prioritized that aperture with the minimal 1/125th speed to :

1. ...decrease the sensibility and the consequent noise for a sharper shot.

2. ... increase the subject isolation through background blur for a more elegant shot.

Furthermore, I think that the poorer light, the uglier noise. I mean shooting a landcape, daytime, handheld, increasing your sensibility to shoot at f/16 for infinite DOP will not give you such a degraded noise. (What do you guys think? Do you confirm?)

Now the 5000-iso noise is not that bad and is even somewhat grainy, giving a more film look and could be justified in a documentary shooting with a more 'in-context' subject, adding depth.

Since you don't like noise, you should have selected manual mode for option 1.

 

Just my view... hope it helped.

Edited June 12, 2019 by Deeliciouz

[Deeliciouz]

In short, Antonio... this is what I would do if you ever shoot indoor/handheld/no flash, whatever the lighting condition.

- Manual mode

- one-shot mode

- central focus 

- 1/125th (minimal default speed to freeze the subject)

- Maximum aperture (f 2.8 here)

- Set your iso 

- aim, compose (focus on your subject's eye), stop breating, shoot

 

[Antonio Correia]

Thank you Deelicious for your comments !
The max aperture of this lens is 5.6 and...

My wife has a A 6500 + Sony 85mm f/1.8 and I have made some shots with it, when it arrived home. She also has a zoom but a "poor" one only for travel purposes, the Sony 18-135 f/3.5-5.6
She is as demanding as I am in image quality terms... but the weight is important to be kept low in certain circumstances.
I am going to send back the 100 GM. I asked if I could, and it's OK.
And what am I going to get instead ?
A Sony SEL FE Full Frame Sonnar T* 55mm f/1.8 ZA !
I think it is good for everyday and for travel with the Sony 24mm f/2.8 and the Sony 85mm f/1.8.
What annoy us both is the changing lens.
I have now two or three plastic bags inside my pouch to drop the camera and lenses in and make the lens swap both hands outside. Perhaps it is a good idea...
We had bad experiences changing lenses even taking all the usual cautions...
Thanks !

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[Deeliciouz]

Hey Antonio! 

That 55mm 1.8 looks like a rational choice. An all-rounder fast prime is the way I'd go if I had to stick with one lens. Affordable and effective. 

Sided with a sharp 85 fast prime and you're good to go! 

Hope it helped!

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Deeliciouz

[Antonio Correia]

Not forgetting the 24mm GM... a real gem

Cheers !

Edited June 12, 2019 by Antonio Correia

[Deeliciouz]

I guess it is. Well I am more a portraitist so the day I shift to Sony, I think I might go for the Sigma Art 85 mm f1.4 or 105 mm f1.4. 

The Canon 85mm f1.8 coupled with the 24-105mm L f4 have been doing a decent job on my 5dmkII so far. 

Sigma lenses, though heavyweights, seem to be somewhat faster in terms of focusing and a tad sharper compared with native Sony primes.

[Antonio Correia]

Perhaps Deeliciouz, perhaps ...
But do nit let yourself take away by forums and publicity. Be careful. I made a mistake with this 100 GM

One more thing: all hight quality lens are heavy and sometimes bulky. Even on m4/3
The Sony 85 f/1.8 is also great Here with the Sony A6500

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So is the 24mm GM

or even the 135 ! this two shots with 7III

Edited June 12, 2019 by Antonio Correia

[Deeliciouz]

I like the man's portrait. 

Bulky and heavy... so are the Sigma Art lenses. I had the 85mm and 105mm in my hands the other day to try to figure it out. Well... it is just about quality, mate! I've never like plastic lenses. I started with a Pentax 67ii and a couple of these super large takumar primes. Theses jewels are similar in size and weight and I used to practice street photography with that beast. Awesome! 

[Antonio Correia]

26 minutes ago, Deeliciouz said:

I like the man's portrait. 

Bulky and heavy... so are the Sigma Art lenses. I had the 85mm and 105mm in my hands the other day to try to figure it out. Well... it is just about quality, mate! I've never like plastic lenses. I started with a Pentax 67ii and a couple of these super large takumar primes. Theses jewels are similar in size and weight and I used to practice street photography with that beast. Awesome! 

Thank you for replying Dee !
Have a good evening !

Oh ! One more. 6500 + S 85 ! Beautiful !

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[Deeliciouz]

Excellent composition staging two contrasted attitudes! As fun as dramatic! Like it. (Just set your aperture priority mode in f1.8 next time to isolate the characters and add drama.) What mode did you use to shoot that still?

[Deeliciouz]

'Ve just viewed a Youtube vid about this fe 100 gm 2.8 lens since I didn't quite catch that 5.6 issue. It seems that lens is damn good in terms of sharpness and bokeh. Best of both worlds. This is where things get complicated: in order to achieve that super creamy bokeh (unusual for such a focal length and aperture since the shots I looked at in the vid look like as if they were taken with longer focal lengths as 200mm f2.8 or maybe a 135 f1.4...). So to deliver that smooth bokeh they use specific glasses (aka 'APD'). The downside of this is that this sort of glass is not as photo sensitive as regular glasses and thus reduce the quantity of light. Consequently, your f2.8 does not act as a traditional 2.8 but like f5.6 in terms of light absorbance but provides a f1.4 telephoto bokeh, which explains why your camera pushes the sensibility to compensate this lack of light absorbance when indoor.

 

To my understanding this lens is designed for:

1. Studio heashot/mid shot portraiture since the use of strobes lets you set your default sensibility at 100 iso for 1/125th or 1/200th. 

2. Outdoor headshot/midshot portraiture with a powerful speedlight allowing you HSS sync at full power

3. In-context and full shot portrait photography with off-speedlight(s)

4. Stills and packshooting with a tripod 

Not intended to:

Indoor handheld documentary and sport photography. Would not use it for weddings unless I'd had a 500w speedlight.

The bottom line is if you are not especially interested in portraits/fashion, nor willing to dive in the strobe and speedsync lighting...  and if you wand to keep shooting 'discretely' as a reporter, whatever the settings, this lens will not match your expectations IMHO. So the lens qualitative but cannot provide tremendous shots for the purposes shown in your pics above.

Handheld, no flash and documentary? I'd rather go for a nice multipurpose one-lens set. Something like a 24-105 constant f2.8 or similar. That would be my bread and butter, mate! IMHO

(70-200mm are too heavy and not as discrete to my tastes. Plus you have to decrease the speed to compensate.)

Have a good day!

 

 

[Pieter]

4 hours ago, Deeliciouz said:

(Just set your aperture priority mode in f1.8 next time to isolate the characters and add drama.)

Good advise is always appreciated but you talk too much of stuff you seem to know little about... The two ladies are at totally different distance to the camera so f/1.8 would likely give too thin DoF. Only one of the ladies would have been in focus or you'd have to do a focus stack. Imo the aperture choice was perfect here.

3 hours ago, Deeliciouz said:

your f2.8 does not act as a traditional 2.8 but like f5.6 in terms of light absorbance but provides a f1.4 telephoto bokeh

If anything, the 100mm GM resembles mostly a 100mm f/4 in terms of subject isolation / amount of background blur. The only way to get good subject isolation with this lens is to have the subject close to the camera and at great distance to the background. Therefore this lens has a fairly close minimum focussing distance (maximum reproduction ratio of 1/4), making it suitable for pseudo-macro shots. It does give exceptionally smoothly blurred backgrounds if done properly, but it doesn't give a lot of 'background blur' in regular portraiture scenario's

3 hours ago, Deeliciouz said:

Something like a 24-105 constant f2.8 or similar.

Such a lens does not exist.

[Deeliciouz]

Indeed, my deer friend, it doesn't. Most 24-105 seems to offer a constant f/4 instead, whatever the brand (Sony, Canon...)

[Antonio Correia]

Thank you Dee and thank you Pieter !
The lens is on the plain now on the way back home.

Pieter seems to know much about this but did not give me much help... but never mind !
Have a nice week end all of you !

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by Antonio Correia

[Deeliciouz]

You are most welcome, mate. 

My counterpart did not answer your question, indeed. However, he did remind me my limited technical knowledge or natural distraction, an example of which was my previous erratic suggestion about the ladies shot settings, only relevant for a frontal shooting of course, given the minimal .8 dop. 

I hope Pieter will at least give me his accurate views on my post naively entitled 'sony a7riii improper to dynamic studio portrait?' and maybe (in)validate this statement made by two professional salesmen, since it is desperately empty so far. 

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by Deeliciouz

[Pieter]

2 hours ago, Antonio Correia said:

The lens is on the plain now on the way back home.

Pieter seems to know much about this but did not give me much help...

The reason I didn't provide help on how best to use the lens is because I don't own one (though it is a genuinely remarkable lens, the low light transmission doesn't get me excited for the price). My knowledge of this lens is therefore based on the same information available to you and Deeliciouz (Google, YouTube, etc).

I guess you heeded my most important piece of advise, which is to accept the fact that the lens doesn't satisfy your needs. Glad your store had such a generous return policy! I'm sure that you can spend this money on some other lens that will give you much more pleasure in photography.

With regards to your lens advise question: the 55 f/1.8 seems like a sensible option as this focal length is a gap in your lens collection. Be aware that it does suffer from significant longitudinal CA, which for me absolutely destroys the fun in having a fast lens with shallow DoF. It is however a very light and compact option at a useful focal length so if you dislike swapping lenses it might work for you. Based on your posts you want a versatile lens with a bright aperture and good image quality. Ever considered an f/2.8 zoom like the Sony 24-70 or Tamron 28-75?

Edited June 13, 2019 by Pieter
typo