Low Light issues

[Mal]

I have a A77II and have been taking night pics on Timeline events in London and Swindon. I used a 50mm prime with a low F stop with manual focus using the built in colour cast. I had to use high ISO and the outcomes were not as good as expected. I would like to reduce the ISO but maintain a high shutter speed as I do not wish to use a tripod as this restricts movement. I am thinking of buying a Sigma F2.8 17-50mm lens to help.

 

Any advice or constructive criticism would be appreciated.

[Steve C]

F2.8 isn't fast enough if you're having troubles with a 50mm prime which is surely going to be a stop faster at least?

[Mal]

Thanks for that. What would you advise

[Guest all8]

You should at least inform the reader of the exact F-stop, Shutter Speed and ISO used in the photos. A sample photo too, why not.

 

From that you might get some help.

[Mal]

I have a A77II and have been taking night pics on Timeline events in London and Swindon. I am somewhat disappointed with the results and would like to improve the pictures without spending hours on the PC. I wish to remain hand held as there are space issues and I prefer the flexibility. I used a 50mm prime lens. I have attached two examples of one that seems alright and one that needs work. The settings for the first picture is Lens 50mm prime, F1.8, Shutter 1/25 and ISO 1250. The second picture has the same settings except the ISO is 1600. I would like to reduce the ISO but maintain a high shutter speed I am thinking of buying a Sigma F2.8 17-50mm lens to help.

 

Any advice or constructive criticism would be appreciated.

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[Golem]

You don't mention, of the 2 example pix, which one you see as

more successful. So I will opine that the second pic, the brighter

looking shot, is better.

 

Since the better looking shot is less noisy and more correctly

exposed, and is shot at a HIGHER ISO, I advise against both of

the changes you are considering, specifically [1] switching to a

slower lens and [2] switching to a lower ISO.

   

In low light, I generally use ISO 1600 and ISO 3200 and my

exposures are intentionally "over exposed" 1/3 or 2/3 stops.

Try a real-world test of that concept using you current gear and

see how it works for you. 

  

Also, your camera has image stabilization. Where the subject is

not overly prone to motion blur, try a LOWER shutter speed, to

get a more adequate exposure level, which reduces noise and

enhances dynamic range and color capture. 

 

   

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Further, explore the Creative Styles that Sony cameras offer.

Some capture more image info than others when working in low

light and challenging contrast levels. You say you don't want to

hafta work so hard in post to make something out of your shots.

The more image info you capture, the easier the work in post.  

 

Image captures having more image info may look kinda flat and

dull before post. Don't let that spook you :-) And you may hafta

customize the Creative Style you choose. Sharpness, contrast,

and saturation are the 3 customizable parameters. I generally

boost sharpness a bit and reduce contrast and saturation only

slightly. This opens up shadow areas and reduces hi-lite blow

out [contrast], saps some strength out of tricky color casts that

would have resisted correction [saturation], and gives me some

sharpening at time of capture, so I can see where my noise is

worst and selectively apply noise reduction in post [sharpness]. 

  

Finally, don't expect night time photos to look like visual clones  

of reality. Reality is in the brain, not the eye, and your brain will  

play more tricks about night scenes than it does in daylight. You

should set a goal for night scenes to look like photographs, not

like "reality". Accept that, and then endeavor to make the scene

please you by its aesthetic qualities rather than by its degree of

technical accomplishment.    

      

 

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OH ! And BTW, I really like that second shot. By now you should

get the idea that I mean I actually like the scene, as a capture of

time and place ... and of RAIN ! And it has no obvious technical

failures to intrude on my enjoyment of it. Technically, that's all it

takes ... no OBVIOUS failures that intrude. I view the scene as

captured and presented. I do not get geekish about technical IQ.

 

"If it LOOKS good, then it IS good". My image viewing mode is

to LOOK. Some other folks' viewing mode is to INSPECT. If you

are the latter, then lotsa luck and I hope your budget can take it.

[mkg3]

I like the first image with the two DD bus better in terms of composition.  The only thing really lacking is some intended focused point in the image.  If the driver's windscreen or the grill of the bus was in focus and the rest blurred, then it gives the sense of motion and speed.  Yes the background could have been panned intentionally to further give that sense but that's more of technique than focus.

 

Based on the issue you are having, I cannot imagine how Sigma F2.8 17-50mm would help you.  If anything, it gets worse since its a slower zoom over your prime.

 

I think that if you prefocus to a particular point and pan the image as you take it, you might find more success, regardless of the shutter speed being quite low.  As for the primary bus being dark, you can lighten that up a bit without the rest of the image being lightened.

 

For the second image, the people are in focus but the background is not.  That may be intentional or simply need higher f-stop and longer exposure time to get all in focus - which you say you don't want to do.  The only other variable (other than bring in more light) is to increase ISO or try lighting it up in post. 

 

[Golem]

FWIW as example, here's ISO 6400 from older technology than

you are using. At 6400 ISO the noise is unavoidable. One can

only work to tweak the aesthetics and hope the scene itself will

overcome the technical liabilities of the shot. 

  

I could have chosen another example, from a better sensor in a

better camera ... but I think this one rides a fine line, in that some

viewers will engage the scene and not be put off by the noise but

I'm sure a significant portion of viewers will be bothered enuf by

noise that engaging with the scene is not easy or not possible. I

find myself really on that borderline in my own viewing of it. Thaz

why I think it explains the ideas in the post above. Your gear can

do better than this ... it's newer. And this is ISO 6400. You could

use ISO 3200 and do even better in the same miserably lit little

parking lot. Maybe even shoot very carefully and get down to ISO

1600, allowing as the gear used here has no image stabilization

but your camera has 5-axis IBIS :-)

  

Give it a try, and be sure to relax and ENJOY !

  

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And here's ISO 1600 from gear similar to yours, altho it has no

image stabilization either: 

  

   

    

 

 

[Guest all8]

I think your photos are wonderful. Perhaps, rather than a new lens you need to consider a different camera. Apparently (I have no direct experience) the A7S is very good a the higher ISO levels you need, and there are now quite a few primes for the E mount. Your existing A mount lenses could also be adapted.

 

That is just a suggestion.

[Mal]

Thanks for the imput. I have used DOX on the first photo. Comments on my first attempt.

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[Angus_Wolf]

Your camera can shoot at ISO 3200 with grain not being much of a problem. Its the digital sensor. If you still don't like it I would recommend lowering your shutter speed because you have image stabilisation.  

[GhostWalker]

I have a A77II and have been taking night pics on Timeline events in London and Swindon. I used a 50mm prime with a low F stop with manual focus using the built in colour cast. I had to use high ISO and the outcomes were not as good as expected. I would like to reduce the ISO but maintain a high shutter speed as I do not wish to use a tripod as this restricts movement. I am thinking of buying a Sigma F2.8 17-50mm lens to help.

 

 

Given the equipment you have and the conditions (low light) you want to shoot in, there are some laws of physics at work that determine the available outcomes.

 

With the amount of light and the shutter speed (high enough to shoot hand-held) being givens, the only variables you have to play with are aperture and ISO. As you likely know, wider apertures will offer better low light performance at the cost of shallower DOF, whereas higher ISOs will offer better low light performance at the cost of increased noise. To some extent, those are the realities and you choose your poison (or, more to the point, you find the compromise you can live with).

 

The only real exceptions to the 'realities' above are down to what can be done in post processing by deliberately shooting somewhat underexposed images and raising the exposure (brightness, actually) after the fact. I'm not familiar with the A77II in that regard, but you may get some improvement at some ISO settings by doing that. To that end, I'd suggest shooting shots at several exposure levels (or using bracketing) and pulling up the shadows in post to see if you can improve the results you're getting that way.