A7RII will not work for bird photography (for me) unfortunately

[dhazard]

After a weekend testing with my new A7RII and a Tamron 50-500mm lense I have unfortunately come to the conclusion that it will not work for bird photography. The camera takes BEAUTIFUL photos, but for birding there are several issues. When taking flight shots you need to see the bird continuosly, unfortunately the EVF freezes for a second with each shot making it virtually impossible to track flight (If I am missing something here please let me know). Also the 1/2 second it takes for the view to switch from the back of the camera to the eye piece can be the difference between getting the shot and not getting it.

Another HUGE issue for me is that whether I use this lense, a prime f4 Tamron 500mm or the Sony f4 500mm (At $13k!!) they all lose autofoucs when used with an extender (1.4x or 2x). This is a deal breaker for a serious bird photographer unfortunately.

 

Has anyone else tried birding with this camera yet?

 

Daniel Hazard

[Wesley]

When you say the EVF freezes each second, are you referring to when it shows the picture you just took or shutter blackout? There is option to turn off the auto image review.

[peterbkk]

I always get very suspicious of posts that start with the premise that "this Xxxxxx won't work for Yyyyyyy", without the poster having even tried to find a solution to solve their "showstopper" issues. Either it's a case of trolling or the poor person is struggling through life buying things then discarding them because they can't get them to work as they like on the very first attempt...

 

Just doing a quick search in the manual would tell you that you can turn off auto-preview and you can lock the display to the viewfinder so it doesn't flip automatically between the two.

 

 

Regards

Peter

http://www.peterwalker.com

[Guest all8]

I have the same problem with the EVF freezing between shots on an A7ii. Using continuous shooting, high speed, the camera takes the photos fast enough however the EVF becomes "jerky" so its hard to track objects - the EVF is probably updating one or two times a second at that point. I started "tracking" birds with my other eye as I pan the camera, that helps a little.

 

It would be nice if I were doing something wrong, however I suspect not.

[LeButler]

Birding is the number 1 use case scenario Sony mirrorless is famously unsuitable for, and you were using a non-native lens which further handicaps the camera.

 

Wesley and peterbkk have very easily solved two of your issues, and I'll point out that the last one is common to other brands too:

Before you buy the Canon equivalent of the A7Rii (the 5D3) note that it too cannot use AF when you add a 2x teleconverter to 500mm plus primes (you'd need a twice-the-price Canon 1D).

[Michael_j]

I only have a lowly A7 but I find that autofocus will work with a 1.4x extender and some lenses. In particular it works with a Sigma 70-300mm though it's a bit iffy above 250mm. The Sigma has a simple dc motor autofocus Sony SAM equivalent) not a HSM (Sony SSM equivalent). With HSM lenses the autofocus does not work.

 

I do agree that the A7 series is not ideal for bird photography though.

[slothead]

That's a good point made about these EVFs.  I think that the vast majority are the same.  They are driven by the same signal as the monitor screen and if that signal thinks it is supposed to show the post-capture image review, then it will appear on the EVF if your eye is up there (and you have auto switching selected).  So the answer to that (as already mentioned) is to shut off image review. 

 

I may be doing this myself - because I get a bit perturbed by the EVF 'interruption' myself - but had forgotten about shutting off review.  This might be an excellent function for a custom button setting.

[dhazard]

I always get suspicious of people who respond to posts and offer only snark - some people actually saw where i wrote: (If I am missing something here please let me know). I also said it didn't work for ME - I made no blanket statements about the camera, I wouldn't pretend to do that after a few days of use. I have bought many cameras and this would be the first I might return.

 

Thanks Wesley - I am glad that auto review in the EVF can be turned off, though it would make more sense if that happened automatically when you have the camera on continuous drive (no one would want to review pictures in that way when taking shots like this). But as mentioned it is an easy fix.

Unfortunately (and I understand the reasoning) there are no native e-mount lenses above the 20-240mm - and in that case (I bought this lense as well) not all of the features of the A7RII are available with this lense (makes zero sense considering how new the lense is).

 

I currently use a Canon 5dMk II - with a 500mm and 1.4x, there is no way in the mirrorless world (at this point, and again feel free to correct me) to get this reach with auto-focus (which is crucial).

 

I did do a lot of research before hand and was hoping that with this camera that Sony would finally be able to compete (and surpass as Canon has done very little in the last 5 years) in the birding arena. I don't think they are there yet. Maybe (hopefully) there is a native 500mm e-mount planned in the future, in the meantime I guess I will have to wait for the 5d Mk IV.

[Moody]

Looks indeed like you have the auto review function on, that will post the last image taken on your EVF (or LCD) for a given time or until you shoot a new photo. Turn it off or you won't be able to track anything with an EVF while taking photos in burst mode.

 

This isn't new, I experienced this on the A77 and A77m2 SLTs (as well as on the A6000), which are quite excellent for BIF photos.

 

As for teleconverters, you will have to look up what maximum aperture is needed to permit AF functionality. I know that my Sony 2x converter won't allow AF paired with a SAL 70-400mm G lens due to the resulting f/8-f/11 max apertures. It would however work on a 70-200mm f/2.8 lens (well, if mine wasn't a Minolta copy...). Third party converters might allow AF, but this was on native A-mount systems. Not sure it will work on an E-mount system along with an adapter...

[puffy]

I reckon by the third generation we'll be there.

 

Sony need to concentrate on the absolute basics first. Forget the whizz-bang stuff, without fast AF, great tracking and good low light AF ability along with lossless RAW, better colour accuracy (this may be sorted, don't know), good buffer rates (UHS-3 compatibility would help), sufficient battery life and shutter lag (this a real biggie for me), this system is not so much crippled but fairly limited in its scope in being all things to all shooters. That's not a criticism, Sony are are going where no others are risking to go and it will take time for this system to mature, but I'm fairly hopeful it will over the next couple of years. 

 

Clearly Sony have made good on a lot of the A7r's many problems (I do own one), but I feel for the price of the A7rII right now it may not be quite enough, for me at least. Autofocus, especially in low light being the main issue along with lag (both switching on and shutter). But, don't really know, haven't tried the A7rII for myself, so I stand to be corrected. Also need to consider firmware updates which may solve some stuff.

 

That said, no other camera manufacturer let's me pack a full frame body and grip, APS-C body, 11 spare batteries(!) and five of the sharpest lenses available (overall going from 14mm to 200mm) into a Domke F-6, the whole lot weighing in around five kilos.

 

Sometimes I think about selling the lot and going Nikon D810 + Nikkor Trinity of f/2.8 zooms + Siggy 35/1.4 Art + Nik 85/1.4G but then I know I'd struggle to haul that lot, especially on aeroplanes.

[Singingsnapper]

I reckon by the third generation we'll be there.

 

Sony need to concentrate on the absolute basics first. Forget the whizz-bang stuff, without fast AF, great tracking and good low light AF ability along with lossless RAW, better colour accuracy (this may be sorted, don't know), good buffer rates (UHS-3 compatibility would help), sufficient battery life and shutter lag (this a real biggie for me), this system is not so much crippled but fairly limited in its scope in being all things to all shooters. That's not a criticism, Sony are are going where no others are risking to go and it will take time for this system to mature, but I'm fairly hopeful it will over the next couple of years. 

 

Clearly Sony have made good on a lot of the A7r's many problems (I do own one), but I feel for the price of the A7rII right now it may not be quite enough, for me at least. Autofocus, especially in low light being the main issue along with lag (both switching on and shutter). But, don't really know, haven't tried the A7rII for myself, so I stand to be corrected. Also need to consider firmware updates which may solve some stuff.

 

That said, no other camera manufacturer let's me pack a full frame body and grip, APS-C body, 11 spare batteries(!) and five of the sharpest lenses available (overall going from 14mm to 200mm) into a Domke F-6, the whole lot weighing in around five kilos.

 

Sometimes I think about selling the lot and going Nikon D810 + Nikkor Trinity of f/2.8 zooms + Siggy 35/1.4 Art + Nik 85/1.4G but then I know I'd struggle to haul that lot, especially on aeroplanes.

I travel a lot in my day job, flying to places like Canada, Mexico, Korea and Japan, and choose my airlines carefully.  At one point I was carrying the Pentax 645D+6 lenses and the Nikon D800 and 6 lenses in my carryon and in a shoulder bag.  Made security fun in some parts.  Occasionally I would also carry the Pentax 645N and a leadlined bag full of film.  Plenty of secondary searches.  So much so that travelling through Vienna airport I offered to get all my stuff out at the beginning.  Told the security guy what I had in my bag and carryon and he said don't worry you'll be fine....Guess what?  I had to pull the lot out...

 

Part of my reasoning in getting the A7R and now the mkII is that on some trips it would reduce my carry on.  I fly business on BA and other One World alliance and BA in particular allow 23kg in main carry on in a standard international case + a second bag in all classes.  I usually get away with the same on Finnair too (even though they have a 10kg) allowance, but that is partly due to business class travel and on the highest level of elite on One World alliance.  Things is that if I don't take my best camera, I will always wonder what a shot would have looked like with my best camera....hopefully Sony will deal with most of the weak points via firmware...

[Guest all8]

Looks indeed like you have the auto review function on, that will post the last image taken on your EVF (or LCD) for a given time or until you shoot a new photo. Turn it off or you won't be able to track anything with an EVF while taking photos in burst mode.

 

 

As far as I can see this setting has no effect when shooting in burst mode, which makes sense since so long as the shutter is depressed you are shooting a new photo. Once the shutter is released, It does show the last shot for the configured time.

 

YMMV

[dhazard]

As far as I can see this setting has no effect when shooting in burst mode, which makes sense since so long as the shutter is depressed you are shooting a new photo. Once the shutter is released, It does show the last shot for the configured time.

 

YMMV

it definitely does effect it - i was shooting in burst mode and it was displaying each photo i took and i held the shutter release down. You definitely need to turn the auto review function off.

[puffy]

I travel a lot in my day job, flying to places like Canada, Mexico, Korea and Japan, and choose my airlines carefully.  At one point I was carrying the Pentax 645D+6 lenses and the Nikon D800 and 6 lenses in my carryon and in a shoulder bag.  Made security fun in some parts.  Occasionally I would also carry the Pentax 645N and a leadlined bag full of film.  Plenty of secondary searches.  So much so that travelling through Vienna airport I offered to get all my stuff out at the beginning.  Told the security guy what I had in my bag and carryon and he said don't worry you'll be fine....Guess what?  I had to pull the lot out...

 

Part of my reasoning in getting the A7R and now the mkII is that on some trips it would reduce my carry on.  I fly business on BA and other One World alliance and BA in particular allow 23kg in main carry on in a standard international case + a second bag in all classes.  I usually get away with the same on Finnair too (even though they have a 10kg) allowance, but that is partly due to business class travel and on the highest level of elite on One World alliance.  Things is that if I don't take my best camera, I will always wonder what a shot would have looked like with my best camera....hopefully Sony will deal with most of the weak points via firmware...

 

Same here. Pentax but not 645, only K-3 with the FA Limited's, Siggy 8-16, PK f/1.2's and the Macro 100 WR. It's a superb travel kit to be honest but dear old Pentax have taken age, measured in geologic time, to come up with a 35mm sensored DSLR. Thus my plunge into Sony about a year ago. But oh I do love Pentax. They really can make a camera you want to pick up.

 

You're brave, much braver than me. On Wednesday I've got London, Delhi and on to Bangkok and then another flight home to Roi-Et for six months of just shooting, nothing but shooting.  Thought about taking both systems, but no, just no. I just can't. I'm getting older and fatter and I struggle, especially in the heat.

 

So, A7r + grip, A6000, Samyang 14/2.8 + Rayqual adapter, FE 28/2, FE 35/1.4, FE 55/1.8 and FE 70-200/4. Got the Cactus flash kit in the checked baggage and a few other bits and bobs like the Induro CT414 and BHL-1 head (ouch, heavy!). Total checked baggage is 30 kilos max (no case over 23 kilos) and carry on eight kilos. So bodies and lenses and the Clevo can just about go carry on.

 

I will admit to emailing EC Mall which is just round the corner from Suvarnabhumi Airport to enquire about an A7rII. They have them advertised for 109,000 Baht or 114,950 Baht with grip!!! That's about £2,100 in our fake printed money.

 

Thankfully it's on pre-order too. Temptation is there, so the faster I get straight back to the boonies where fresh milk is a luxury the safer it will be for my bank balance.

 

Yup, wait for the firmware updates. More reviews after updates. Post-launch price drop. Then (I'm cheap see) the open box deals. Got the A7r for £1,090 new.

[Wesley]

Longest length with AF on mirrorless suitable for BIF...I can only think of a6000 with FE 70-200 f4. Crop sensor so 300mm~

[puffy]

Longest length with AF on mirrorless suitable for BIF...I can only think of a6000 with FE 70-200 f4. Crop sensor so 300mm~

 

Got that combo and it's smokin' hot! A6000 is much better than using the A7r with that lens.

[bdp]

Just tried this with my A7rII, and even with Auto Review OFF, continuous mode will show each shot in the EVF as they're shot. No live view.

 

Ben

[Asmundma]

Sony A7R2 works with Canon 400m 2.8  v2 with the metabones adapter - reasonably fast autofocus - however will obviously not match a 1Dx. Did not try to 1.4x converter yet.  For video it works pretty nice though.

[graylinghunter]

I have used the sony a99 for BIF with the the tamron 150-600....evf does have lag but it easy to anticipate direction with practice no harder than my previous pentaprism systems I used years ago.. 

[easycass]

I can also confirm with auto review off, shooting in continuous drive mode still shows a continuous stream of frozen images. I did read somewhere it was the same with the Samsung and Fuji models. Rather than an image review, it could just be the image at start of capture displayed until the next start of capture is initiated...

 

If there is no settings or future update for this, on the A7Rii, I guess it will still make optical finders better for shooting anything that requires a fast VF response for live view of moving scenes/subjects...

[Golem]

I seems then that the A7 series is generally not

for birding. This is hardly sooprizing. The A7 is a

Leica-M type of system, and very decidedly not a

high-speed SLR type of system. The situation of

digital tech making M-type cameras vastly more

versatile than back in the film era is misleading

very many users into ignoring the still-extant gulf

between M-type systems and SLR systems.

 

It was, not very long ago, rather normal to own

both types, for the particular strengths of each.

We've not yet arrived at a time when both have

merged and a single type replaces the two types.

 

Admittedly, some great birding was done with the

M-Leicas, Visoflexes, and Telyt lenses. But those

dead masters have not passed that skill down to

the current users, so M-type systems, even with

all the updates, are not the best choice for birding

in today's context. It is not enuf to be lightweight

and silent if far too many complex photo chores

remain for the long-suffering user to juggle.

`

[Moody]

Just stumbled upon this forum thread about the A7RII and long Sony lenses:

 

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1380420/1

 

Looks like you might get EVF freezes (might be looking like Auto Review ON) when you have the Display Quality set to High, setting it to Normal in the menus seemed to do the trick for that A7RII user shooting air shows with an SAL70-400 GII and the LAEA3 adapter.

 

Could that be what you still see after turning the Auto Review feature Off?

[bdp]

Nope, just tried setting the display quality to Standard and it behaves exactly the same.

[cengell]

Hello All, could it be the speed of the SD card used? I would think just maybe it's writing to the card and a faster card read/write would have some effect and the faster would be less freezing? 

 

Christopher

[dhazard]

Hello All, could it be the speed of the SD card used? I would think just maybe it's writing to the card and a faster card read/write would have some effect and the faster would be less freezing? 

 

Christopher

Unfortunately not, I was using the highest speed card available