A7R II Report on poor focus on EVF with manual focus lenses @ Diglloyd

[flsony1]

Hello Sony Alpha Forum,

 

My first post as a brand new newbie. I am in the queue at B & H for a Sony A7R II and my Loxia 50mm F2 is on its way from Japan. So although this first post mentions a potential, emphasis on potential, problem with the new version 2 of the A7R, this is NOT a troll.

 

Please have a look at:

 

diglloyd.com

 

the main blog page. This issue of poor view on the EVF with manual focus lenses (while acquiring focus, if I understand) appeared yesterday Tuesday, August 4, probably late in the evening.  Already somebody else has reported that the OP might have set his camera incorrectly. This is major for me. I sold my d800e last year, just before Photokina, and lost over $1500 on what I had paid for it only 2 years earlier. The fundamental reason for this fire sale: poor live view. This was fixed with the d810, but Nikon -by not issuing a firmware update on what I found to be such fundamental a problem- had definitively lost me as a customer.

 

I only use manual focus lenses.

 

So this post is addressed to people who are lucky enough to already have the camera and use manual focus (even better if you use a Loxia) and have their comments.

 

 

Again this is really major for me, so any answer much appreciated.

 

Frank

 

 

[Golem]

Nearly all my lenses are legacy stuff. I've used

various cameras [altho mainly Sony] and none of

them have a problem such as you query ... unless

I have them set up incorrectly. Forums are full of

that same question over and over and over .....

And it's always user error.

 

Two things:

 

If you use "effects view", the finder does not

compensate by automatically brightening as you

stop down a manual lens [also vice versa]. So

to see what you're doing you hafta cancel the

"effects view".

 

Second thing. For some users, maybe leaving the

"effects view" engaged is better. After all, the

finder will always show a good view when you set

a good exposure. But there's more to it.

 

More about "second thing". When you cancel the

the "effects view" and your finder looks equally

bright at all [or nearly all] f/stops, so you might

forget to open the iris to max aperture to focus.

If you focus at less than max aperture, the DOF

increase makes exact focus much less distinct.

 

P.S.

The above are NOT peculiar to the EVF. The LCD

[rear] monitor exhibits the effects.

 

`

[Robinson]

Excuse me for sounding a little stupid but isn't the operator responsible for attaining focus on a manual focus lens. If the image is in focus on the manual lens, the EVF should technically display a properly focused image just like it would do with an autofocus lens. From what I know about the a7S for astrophotography, the live view on the EVF is one of the best options out there for attaining tack sharp focus on distant objects. unsure that the a7r2 would be different.

[Philber]

There are multiple aspects to the question you raise. The A7RII has a lower magnification of the viewfinder (5x and 12x) than the previous A7R (7x and 14x), so that might not make things easier (euphemism) for a person transitioning over to the newer camera.

Otherwise, the EVF is the same, but the glass part of it is improved (courtesy of Zeiss).

As to the implementation, it does not suffer from the Nikon D800 weakness, if that is your question.

[flsony1]

Hi and thank you for your prompt responses. Reading I wonder if I was clear enough in my OP.

 

The origninal post that appeared on Diglloyd read as follows:

 

I have had a

Sony A7R II

for a few days and in nearly all aspects the camera is superb.

The one flaw, and one you may wish to cover in depth in your review, is that

the EVF for manual focus is vastly inferior to the original A7R

. I use the two Loxia lenses and the magnified focus function is poor. The image seems degraded (almost like bad jpeg blocking) and makes focusing on foliage really difficult. The ’12.5’ setting is better but the first ‘5’ setting near useless. Whether this is down to Sony downsampling the feed to the EVF is something you may wish to explore. Turning IBIS off does not seem to make a difference. A friend of mine (another landscape photographer) noticed the same thing straight away.

My thoughts, and my friends after we discussed it, wonder whether Sony have compressed the feed to the EF (and monitor) to cope with IBIS. Turning IBIS off however doesn’t improve things. I found I could focus at the highest magnification setting but am frustrated that it has to be a two stage operation to get to the ’12.5’ setting. I have asked Sony if there is any way to set the camera to jump to the higher setting as the ‘5’ one is useless. Really surprised no there user/reviewer has picked up on this issue yet.

I have contacted Sony customer support and wait to see if they come back with any potential solutions in a firmware update or as I fear it is ‘baked’ into the camera.

Then early this morning, someone anwered, still on Diglloyd:

 

Quote:

 

"On the “poor” quality of the EVF in manual focus, I wonder if the poster had changed the “Display Quality” setting set to “High.” The default is “Standard.” Go to Menu/“Suitcase” Settings/Tab 2." End of quote.

 

The original post post really worried me because this person says that he is using the new A7R II with the Loxia lenses, which is precisely what I intend to do.

 

So my question basically was addressed to forum members who already have the new A7R II and have found or not found a similar issue.

 

Sorry for any misunderstanding in the original post.

 

Thanks.

 

Frank

 

[AndrewN]

I was the photographer who sent the email to Lloyd Chambers (actually a couple of short emails he merged together). Unfortunately the EVF view is inferior to the A7R. I have talked to another photographer and he noticed the same problem as soon as he got his camera. It is almost as if the feed to the EVF and LCD is being compressed somewhere along the pipeline. It is useable, once you get used to it,  but it appears softer and less contrasty than the previous viewfinder image.  I just hope Sony can fix it via firmware (though I doubt it) or allow a strait to '12.5' setting as a custom option. Apart from this aspect the camera does live up to all the hype - it is that good and feels fantastic with the Zeiss lenses on it.

[flsony1]

Thank you Andrew for replying.

 

Are you saying the EVF view is inferior only when magnifying for focus or is it inferior in all circumstances?

 

To give a reference, on the d800e, the liveview focus was so bad, you were n-e-v-e-r 100% sure it was nailed, like NEVER. I was fuming about this for over 2 years.  As said earlier, I only use manual focus lenses and I have great hopes for the Loxia 50. It is not that bad with the A7R II, right?

 

Thanks again.

 

Frank

[cengell]

Fred Miranda a long time ago was one of the first to post about the poor focusing in the Nikon live view camera D800, and received many emails that did not agree with him, but I did ask Brian Smith a Sony Artisan and was on yesterdays Unique Photo live broadcast and he said that he has not found it any worse than the A7r ( well I think that's what he said), and suggested changing the display to B&W and choose for the Focus Peaking color RED and only use Low or Med and NOT High for better focusing Peaking accuracy.

 

He said whit the B&W and the Red it makes it easier to see where the focus plane is, now he did not say or imply that yes that it''s not as good as the A7r, since he is close to Sony.

 

I so loved the 14.4x focusing magnified image, and hope the A7rII is as good but reading this above I don't think so....

 

Christopher

 

P.S I just went to diglloyd.com, and he reports that the 5x is bad but the 12.5 is GREAT, so it'a good read and I agree 5x would be a nice magnification but in Standard or High quality is still bad, so for me 12.5x then but anyone interested go read about it.

[AndrewN]

Frank

 

The EVF is okay for normal viewing, the '5' setting for manual focus is rubbish but I am learning to live with the 12.5 setting. To me its not as good as the A7R but it is useable. What I really don't like is that to get to the 12.5 setting requires an extra button press. I wish Sony would allow you to skip the first 5 setting which would make it much quicker in operation.

Unfortunately as is often the case in early 'reviews' one wonders just how unbiased some of the opinions are. If Sony fly you to a nice press freebie are you really going to then be critical.

One of the better more honest reviewers out there is Lloyd Chambers.

 

I agree with you about the D800. Live view was so bad I simply never used it. The D810 was a massive improvement.

 

Andrew

[yali]

I just read that there is a setting to set the Quality of the EVF. It's called Display Quality. Does setting that to "High" help in any way? Would love to hear from somebody who has that issue...

[AndrewN]

I just read that there is a setting to set the Quality of the EVF. It's called Display Quality. Does setting that to "High" help in any way? Would love to hear from somebody who has that issue...

 

Makes no visible difference

[flsony1]

Just to say thank you to all of you for your replies. The fact that I have to go to a second setting to choose 12.5x is not too much to my liking, because the 5x immediate magnification with the Loxia as you operate the focus  ring was actually the reason I got the lens. I think Zeiss may not like this too much.

 

Anyway, thanks for the help. Much appreciated.

 

Frank.

[alastc]

Going from an A7S to the A7R2, the new viewfinder is really big and clear, I honestly hadn't noticed any change in settings for the magnification. (Only used a 135mm so far, so max zoom isn't needed that much.)

[Matt O'Sullivan]

I've been shooting manual lenses on A7 cameras for the last four months. Haven't tried the original A7R, but I've had an A7, A7II, A7S and A7RII.  Currently have A7S and A7RII.  Focus peaking is virtually useless on all of them (way way way too forgiving, at all apertures, except in certain specific scenarios with particular lenses), but there are other ways. 

 

If yo're shooting still subjects, landscapes, etc, then zooming in is just fine on all of them, A7RII is fine.

 

I shoot street, low light, a lot of walking and movement.

 

After some fiddling and googling, I arrived at the following settings:

 

Display Quality high

Setting Effect View on

Creative Style B&W

Sharpness +3

Peaking off, or LOW in red (with a button set as a shortcut to toggle peaking)

 

This allows me to see an intensified kind of shimmery effect when my target is in focus.

 

All of the cameras have been pretty good for manual focus, even without zooming, but it's definitely harder to nail focus with the huge sensor of the A7RII.  Subjectively I can say that the magnified image on the A7RII does look a little more degraded or noisy than on the other cameras, but I wouldn't say it makes it more difficult to focus.  In low light (or any light really) the sensor on the S is significantly less noisy, so there's less distraction. I find I have much more confidence nailing focus on the A7S than the A7RII.  BUT, of course, at 25% of the resolution, it's a much more forgiving camera.  With the RII I am always aware in the back of my mind that at 100% I might notice I didn't nail it. So I think it's more psychological than anything.  

 

 

 

 

[Guest Jaf-Photo]

Not a big deal. With EVF you get focus peaking or magnification. Peaking is fast but works best with greater depth of focus. Magnification is slower but very precise.

 

You'll soon get used to it.

[Golem]

Not a big deal. With EVF you get focus peaking or

magnification. Peaking is fast but works best with

greater depth of focus. Magnification is slower but

very precise.

 

You'll soon get used to it.

   

Mostly on the same page with you, except for: 

 "Peaking is fast but works best with greater

depth of focus". 

  

I find that peaking is most useful and accurate

with minimal DoF. At wide apertures the color

edge is only a narrow line to aid focusing. But

at small apertures, the peaking colors a broad

range, or depth, of distances so that the actual

focus plane is NOT indicated or displayed.

 

 

Think of focusing on the texture of a basketball

for instance. At wide aperture only a thin curve

of color indicates focus, but at small apertures

a whole "wrap-around" effect of peaking color

spreads out from what had been only one thin

curved line of color. It is an intriguing graphical

presentation on the relationship of aperture to

DoF, but that widening band of color is useless

as an indicator of the plane of actual true focus :-(  

[Guest Jaf-Photo]

In my experience peaking is off somerimes because it highlights high contrast edges. If you have deep focus those are more likely to coincide with the plane of focus. With shallow focus, peaking only had to be off by half an inch to miss focus. It's not true in all conditions, but I always use magnification with shallow dof to be sure.