Are the Sony F60M flashes still overheating?

[Disambiguous42]

I realize that this is a forum regarding cameras, but since there is no forum for accessories/flashes specifically, and I'm an A7RII owner, I'd ask it here.

 

I'm trying to decide between the F60M and the F43M flashes from Sony.  The 60 has more bells and whistles, is more powerful, and costs $150 more, $548 at B&H versus $398.

 

Unfortunately I'm reading in the B&H reviews that the 60 has overheating problems.  Since I shoot the occasional wedding and corporate event, this is something I cannot have.  However, all the complaints are from about two years ago.  Does anyone have one of these flash units of a recent vintage who can tell me whether or not the overheat problem has been cured?  Many thanks, -DA42.

[Guest Peter Kelly]

The answer is yes and no, unfortunately.

 

Basically, in its original form the 60 will overheat and this will be particularly bad in a wedding environment on a warm sunny day. There is nothing worse than fill flash for large groups when the ambient temperature is high!

If you don't have a second gun, simply don't even contemplate it.

 

That said, Sony have released a firmware update, but I understand you need to return the gun for them to install it. As far as I know it will slow the flash down and reduce power output if the temperature rises, in a similar way to how the Nikon SB910 behaves now, but it's not a perfect solution. Because of the 'slowing' which some may see as a negative I understand it is still an option, rather than being standard, and cannot be reversed.

 

All that said, it was an ideal partner for the A99 and I would recommend it for that. On the other hand, I think it too large for the A7Rii and it wouldn't give you good balance, so the 43 is a much better bet.

In addition, the A7Rii is far more capable in terms of low light performance, so the need for great lumps of flash power is far less. The 43 would be plenty if you choose your settings correctly.

 

My personal preference, though, is the Nissin i40. Almost as powerful as the 43, smaller with better balance, very simple to use, and a lot cheaper! The only thing I miss is the swivel head. I really, really loved that and regard it as one of Sony's best innovations!

 

Unless you have a specific and repeated need for off-camera flash I would recommend the Nissin. If you prefer the Sony and wish to keep the option for off-camera then the 43 is next on my list. I'd put the 60 at the bottom of those three although, despite the heating issue, it is still a very fine flash gun and I wouldn't say not to buy one.

[michelb]

I have both and both ( you can extrapolate this to all modern flashes ) can be prone to the overheat issue if you try taking too many pictures in a short time with high power involved. Read the owner's manual to any modern flash unit and in the safeguards, they mention this !

 

While doing macro shots in WL, my HVL-F43M did stop working but then i took about 60 shots in quick succession.

There was no overheat protection on older flash units and therefore, people using high power, fast and repetitive shooting were actually killing their flash slowly.

 

The new firmware should be on new F60M units, but be aware that this is at the expense of slower recycling times !

 

I agree the F60M is kind of big on an A7 type body since it was designed for the A-Mount A99.

 

To me the F43M is the most versatile, reasonably sized, full featured with open to advanced WL TTL control with older inexpensive Sony and Minolta flash units. It also offers simple to activate HSS you can buy.

 

Unless you need the little extras the F60M offers (  approx, 1 stop power advantage, connector for wired TTL( that everybody finds too expensive and can not be combined with WL), external power supply connector ( if used, it will only contribute more to the overheat phenomeneon)

 

You don't mention how it is going to be used !!!!

[Disambiguous42]

Peter and Michel--  Thanks so much for your informative replies.  When I shoot macro I use off-camera flash a lot, so the wired TTL would be nice to have.  As mentioned in the initial post, I will do the occasional wedding or corporate event, which will require the flash to do a lot of work for a couple hours at a time.

 

All that considered, one of the things I'll be using it for a lot is on low-power manual to trigger my studio strobes.  For me, it's easier than setting up my radios.  Looks like I'll start out with the 43, and I'll consider the Nissin.  -DA42

[chrome77]

I am a real estate photographer and I was debating on the two as well. Unfortunately the F43M overheats a lot as well. I need a flash that can constantly shoot. I shoot big and small properties and mostly have to shoot the whole thing in 30-90 minutes. I normally go into a room. shot 3 shot brackets TTL from 2-3 angels, and move on to the next room. I cant be stopping for 10 minutes to let the thing cooldown.

 

Is there another option? I would really hate to have to buy two just so I can get around this awful overheating problem!!

 

Does the F60M over heat that easily at +0 - -1.7 power?

[michelb]

The issue here is when working in TTL you have no idea how much power the flash is putting out even when taking the power down ( every flash burst generates some heat from the capacitors emptying their charge AND the batteries trying to recycle the capacitors ASAP)

 

By the way i also overheated the built-in flash of my A77 SLT camera while doing WL. It was the control unit that emits only the start/stop command and i had to wait a while before shooting again.

 

The way to limit the power output to minimize this phenomenon:

- Increase ISO ( but then your ambient light will change and noise may become a problem )

- open up your aperture ( but then you lose control over your depth of field)

- use more than one flash (either cabled  or WL) to lighten the load each flash has to provide

 

OR

 

Keep a spare flash handy and change to this second unit after a specified number of shots (before overheating comes on)  so you always have 2 units working in case one overheats.

 

If i were a wedding prevent photographer, i would look a the Metz MECABLITZ 76 MZ-5 digital. I don't yet know if they offer an SCA 3000 series connector with the MIS shoe for this but since this is a big unit the capacitors and batteries are likely to have more breathing room. But then even the Metz owner's manual it mentions: 

When taking a series of flash shots at full light output and fast recycling

times as provided by NiMH battery operation, make sure to observe an

interval of at least 10 minutes after 20 flashes, otherwise the flash unit

will be overloaded.

 

For Macro work in WL: I would use the HVL-F43M as a controller unit on the body ( will take a lot longer to overheat since the WL control is only emitting 2 start/ stop flash bursts that will take a lot longer for the flash to accumulate heat) and:

- For WL TTL use an older (or 2 units) of Sony HVL-F36AM ( or Minolta 3600HS(D) which are the same flash units. These have no overheat protection and in Macro you rarely require full output. They have the older Sony/Minolta shoe but they come with a foot to mount on brackets/light stands. They are often available for 100-125$ on the used market.

- For TTL AND Manual WL use an older (or 2 units again) of Sony HVL-F56AM ( or Minolta 5600HS(D) which again are the same flash unit with no overheat protection. Same foot and stand as the previous model and these are a little more powerful and offer easier and more flexible Manual flash operation. These are often available for 200-250$ on the used market.

 

For Macro in cabled mode, this is quite another story ( you can not mix WL and cabled in the same set-up) and this would require adapter shoes/cables and maybe even a multi-connector that even in the used market would come up to the cost of a used HVL-F56AM mentioned above. FA-CS1M shoe = 50$ each and you would need one on camera and one under your F43M unit, Minolta Cable CD/ EX or Sony equivalents= 25-40$ each for a used 1m cable. would you want to use 2 flash units, add a Triple connector = 50$ + used and extra cables so you are now at close to 200$ and still don't have the 2nd flash.

 

There is no free lunch. Only studio type flash units can cope with continuous use of flash because they have vents and fans to cool things down. If camera manufacturers started doing this, it would most likely make them so big and expensive, you would not buy them !

[chrome77]

sigh...guess i have to buy two...ugh. 

 

so why dont the nikon or the canon overheat? 

 

My boss shoots faster than I do and her sb900 doesnt overheat at all

[tarkane]

sigh...guess i have to buy two...ugh. 

 

so why dont the nikon or the canon overheat? 

 

My boss shoots faster than I do and her sb900 doesnt overheat at all

 

Maybe, she just disabled "thermal cutoff" in the flash's settings as a workaround ?

 

If you search, you may find a lot of people complaining about overheating issues of their flash guns (regardless of brand & model). Here are some example complains for SB900, for instance :

 

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3560794

 

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1108080

 

https://www.flickr.com/groups/71917374@N00/discuss/72157623382292841/

 

http://photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00YkMF

[rweissman]

I have used the Nissin Di 700 Air at events with excellent results and no apparent overheating (and excellent off camera wireless trigger). I also use the Sony 43 and Nissin i40. both Nissins work well as does the Sony.  For absolute no-overheating, one might also try the Nissin MG 8000 (Machine Gun 8000), which I regularly use on Canons as well as on Sonys, but with no TTL on Sony as they don't make a Sony version.)

[boojoo007]

How long do you have to wait if you Flash overheats? I am torn on which one to buy now!

Sony nissin i40 or sony F43M?

[chrome77]

How long do you have to wait if you Flash overheats? I am torn on which one to buy now!

Sony nissin i40 or sony F43M?

 

Probably too late now...but

 

I just wanted to give you guys an update. 

 

I just wanted to give you guys an update. I went ahead and decided to buy the F43M since I had been using it just fine after an adjustment. I was using it on too high on power and after the adjustment to shoot at -1.3 power, the overheating issue was fixed and no longer a problem. 

 

Unfortunately I could not get my hands on one and had to settle for the F60M.

 

Since it has more power i stopped it down to -1.7 power. So far i have had NO overheating issues for what I use it for. I shoot real estate. My shots are 3 image manual brackets, using TTL, at about -3, 0 and +3evs. I shoot about 2-4 shots per room fairly quickly. I havent really pushed it that hard yet, but i am pretty happy with it. The screen on the back is higher resolution which is nice because the menu is MUCH easier to navigate than the F43M. 

 

It also has full high speed sync by default. It will sync with the shutter all the way up to 1/8000 on my a7II. No idea why you would need that...but its there. The difference between 1/250 and 1/320 with the flash on is pretty big.

 

Hope that helps a little bit.

 

David

[chrome77]

Edit: sorry I accidentally double posted. No delete button? 

[SherryBeazley]

Just want to add that the Sony 43 does indeed overheat and it doesn't take long! Chose to purchase this flash because of the reviews which said it doesn't. Now when I have an event, I have a problem!

[Guest Peter Kelly]

Unfortunately, there's no getting around the double-edged sword of providing sufficient light and not getting too hot.

 

Every flashgun (especially modern powerful ones) will overheat when pushed. Some people carry multiple guns (not ideal), some people turn off the protection (not possible with Sony), and others will just up the percentage of ambient light (depends upon your camera's low light ability). The trick is to find the best camera/gun combination for your needs.

 

If you do events that have very poor lighting, or you need a lot of shots, or you have big groups, there are few options. You could try to have a strobe set up, although that's only good for set pieces. Failing that, you will need to find an ISO setting that gives you the results you need and allows the flash to keep up. Finally, if all else fails, to paraphrase 'Jaws', you'll need to get a bigger flash! Something like the Metz 76 Mz-5. Of course, it's big, heavy, and expensive, but there's no such thing as a free lunch...

[SherryBeazley]

Wonder why my Sony 56 never over-heated???

[michelb]

Wonder why my Sony 56 never over-heated???

 

It does not have thermal heat protection circuit and if it does, it is a lot less sensitive than that of the 43/60M flashes.

But then again, the 43/60M flash units have faster recycling times that contribute to the overheat issue

[studiov1]

please some one knows witch adapter do  i need ,to use my old minolta 5600 to my A7RII?

[michelb]

please some one knows witch adapter do  i need ,to use my old minolta 5600 to my A7RII?

 

Sony ADP-MAA

 

I tried it successfully with:

Minolta 2500D, 3600HS(D), 5600HS(D)

Sony HVL-F20AM, F36AM, F42AM, F43AM, F56AM, F58AM

Phottix Odin trigger on A7r, A7II

Minolta MFC-1000 Macro Flash controller for AF 1200, R1200 ring lights and T2400 Twin flash, but for accurate exposure you need to place EFCS in OFF position for this one.

 

This is what it looks like: Bottom on the left, top on the right

[PVCDroid]

I am a real estate photographer and I was debating on the two as well. Unfortunately the F43M overheats a lot as well. I need a flash that can constantly shoot. I shoot big and small properties and mostly have to shoot the whole thing in 30-90 minutes. I normally go into a room. shot 3 shot brackets TTL from 2-3 angels, and move on to the next room. I cant be stopping for 10 minutes to let the thing cooldown.

 

Is there another option? I would really hate to have to buy two just so I can get around this awful overheating problem!!

 

Does the F60M over heat that easily at +0 - -1.7 power?

Your flash is overheating shooting real estate? That's insane and impossible in my opinion. I shoot real estate professionally with the A7Rii and F60m and can't imagine getting it to overheat while bracketing even running from room to room.