Help me (SAR admin) to buy the right tele lens for mountain shooting.

[SAR_admin]

Hi!

 

I need a high quality tele lens for my A7rII (when it gets released I will buy it). So I am asking you lens experts which lens I should get. Here are couple of remarks about the lens I need:

1) I do not need autotofocus (so any third party manual lens will do it)

2) I will climb and hike a lot with the lens in my bag
3) Needs to resolve a 50MP FF sensor.

4) Zoom preferable but also suggest me top primes if you want

 

Thanks!

[Phillip Reeve]

Let me answer with some questions

 

• Would a very good 70-200 suit your needs? Or do you need something longer?
• How important is corner sharpness to you?
• How much would you be willing to invest?

[SAR_admin]

1) I am yet not sure about the focal length. But If I climb for 8 hours I would be pissed off if I see 200mm isn't enough

2) It's very important

3) What is needed. That's not for hobby, it's for work.

[addicted2light]

Contax Vario-Sonnar 100-300/4,5-5,6. Extremely sharp, kicked in the butt my Canon L glass; I ended up selling that stuff but keeping the Contax. Beautiful Zeiss colors (slightly warmer than the usual Zeiss IMHO slightly ugly magenta cast) and the best bokeh of the entire Contax lineup (yes, included the 180/2.8).

 

It is razor-sharp at 100 to 200/250. At 300 is still sharper (look at the MTF from Zeiss) than the 300/4 prime of the same brand, and according to several posts it is sharper than the 300/4 Canon L (or at least than its first version; I cannot vouch for this not having ever owned a 300 Canon L).

 

You can check it here:

 

http://www.contaxcameras.co.uk/slr/slrmanlenses/variosonnar100300.html

 

Price-wise it sells from 500 to 700€; I managed to buy one new-old-stock for 550€. Just check that the aperture is working (some of the Contax might have this kind of problem). At least up till now I've seen no zoom creep, even if it is a push-pull kind of zoom.

 

To get things in perspective I got (ever so slightly) sharper results with this lens hand-held (without whatsoever image stabilization) than with the 135/2 Canon L on a tripod, at comparable apertures.

 

It does not have a tripod collar, but for a light camera is sorely needed, unless you're willing to use a remote to trigger the exposure after waiting 15 seconds for the vibrations to settle (and I use an Arca Swiss B1 ball, not exactly a cheap one). Luckily there is a Chinese vendor that sells one for 25€ on *bay.

 

Another nice thing, even though I'm not sure if this will still work as well on a 50Mp body, is that it works as a charm with a cheap Vivitar 2x Macro MC focal multiplier (between 20 and 30€), giving you both a still reasonably sharp 600/11 (for landscape use only, obviously, given the resulting aperture) and a pretty good "macro/close-up" lens.

 

EDIT: I forgot to add that this lens used to cost the equivalent of 2.400€ in today's money! And that I did an extremely short review a few years back:

 

http://www.addicted2light.com/2011/05/08/review-contax-100-300mm-f45-56-vario-sonnar/

[SAR_admin]

More I read about the Contax 100-300mm more I think this could be the right lens! Did you test it with a Sony A7 camera?

[addicted2light]

Unfortunately not; I used it on a Canon 5D mark II and now (waiting for Sony to release the 50mp body) on a Nex 7 (and I stitch like crazy, ending up with 200 or more Mp images routinely).

 

On the Nex 7 still shines, though, sharp on the entire area at every stop (even if obviously the sensor can't see the "full frame borders"). Given that a Nex 7 is a "virtual" crop of a 50Mp sensor and that I cannot see *any* degradation in the Aps-c field I don't think, or at least I hope, that we will have any bad surprise here.

 

BTW, do not obsess in finding a new copy to have a warranty. My sample's aperture got stuck (oil) and Zeiss wanted 1.800€ for the repair. I'm still laughing... I solved this just adapting the lens to Canon (5€) and buying one of these Canon to Sony adapters with an aperture inside (20€).

[SAR_admin]

I only found a few used in Japan. Zero on eBay Europe

I really wnat that oen now. Looks solid and compact enough for my bag!

[SAR_admin]

Is it also better than the Tele-Apotessar T* 2,8/300?

[addicted2light]

It's not just solid, it's a rock that somehow Zeiss managed to shape like glass  

 

Keep an eye out, they pop out from time to time. The only problem is when some collector makes their price inflate out of proportion.

 

Or, you could check if there is any old store that has old stock sitting on the shelves.

 

Another possible alternative (but I've not used this one myself) is the old Canon L 100-300/5.6 (I think they made this one in FD version as well). But for this one you will have to ask to someone with experience on it, I can offer only hearsay.

 

I've also used for a bit (while the Contax was with Zeiss in Germany) a Nikon 100-300/5.6. Not even close to the Contax in terms of sharpness, on the Canon 5d mk II it was quite sharp, and I bet that on a relatively low pixel-pitch camera like the A7r should still perform reasonably well (this while you hunt for the Contax). I wouldn't use it though on a 50Mp body, given that on the Nex 7 looks like s***, ehm, you know what   

[addicted2light]

Is it also better than the Tele-Apotessar T* 2,8/300?

 

No, but not by much. You can check for yourself, I managed to dig out the official (measured on actual lenses, not calculated like the other manufacturers) Zeiss MTF data-sheets and a couple of tests (the accompanying text is in Italian, but the numbers are fairly comprehensible even without reading it)

 

Test

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9763620/Contax%20100-300%20Vario-Sonnar.pdf

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9763620/Contax%20300%20ApoTessar.pdf

 

Zeiss MTF

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9763620/Tele-Apotessar2.8_300mm_e.pdf

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9763620/Vario-Sonnar4.5-5.6_100-300mm_e.pdf

[SAR_admin]

That Contax 100-300mm is really convincing. But I know I have to wait quiate a long time to find one on eBay Europe. I will check also for the Canon FD verison you mentioned I do own the FD 55mm f/1.2 and I am very happy with it!

[addicted2light]

That Contax 100-300mm is really convincing. But I know I have to wait quiate a long time to find one on eBay Europe. I will check also for the Canon FD verison you mentioned I do own the FD 55mm f/1.2 and I am very happy with it!

 

If you think at what price they used to sell (like I said around 2.400€ in today's money, at least here in Italy) they were almost the Otus of the 90s, given the technology available then.

 

Before someone eats me alive: no, I'm not saying that a Vario-Sonnar is sharper or as sharp as an Otus! Even though I'm pretty sure that if you use the lenses to take pictures, and not to stare at test charts, the differences will be almost nihil.   

[Guest PenGun]

 A couple of thoughts. I wander in my local mountains all the time. Now they are not huge, the one right behind me is 1000 meters, and the next one is about 1800 meters, they do cover quite an area though.

 

 What are you trying to take pictures of? I can't see much beyond a 135mm for pictures of the mountains themselves. Now if you are hunting birds and wildlife the needs changes a lot. As well for mountians I use a good tripod for everything and the longer the lens the more tripod you need. All this gets carried up the mountain.

 

 I don't use zooms myself. I enjoy getting to where I want to take the picture from, as much as taking them. As well trying to snipe mountains from comfortable positions with long lenses has never yielded stellar results, for me anyway.

 

 Good luck with all this, there is nothing finer than to be up the mountain looking for pictures.

[addicted2light]

 Goos luck with all this, there is nothing finer than to be up the mountain looking for pictures.

 

+1, definitely!

[Austerror]

Sigma 50-500mm A mount? Sometimes known as a Bigma.

 

Cheap and apparently pretty good. I'm tempted to get one myself...

[Phillip Reeve]

The Zeiss 100-300 seems to be a very interesting lens. If you would like even more reach I can also recommend the Sony 70-400 I. It can be had used for around 1000€ and you would have all the exif info and a great tripod colar. The biggest benefit would be the added reach butwhile lightweight for it's focal lenght it is still a heavy lens

[Joshi_H]

I would like to share Phillips opinion and recommend the 70-400 G. I use it since the time I owned the alpha 850 and it is a marvelous lens, but to be honest I don't know whether it is capable of resolving images on a 50 MP sensor.

It works perfect with the Kenko 1,4 DGX Teleconverter.

[iul]

What does prevent you from using the FE 70-200 mm F4 G OSS - good optical quality, light weight, no need for an adapter and a perfect combination with the A7r ? (AF can be switched off easily)

[glowinthedark]

I do use a Tamron SP AF 70-300 F/4-5.6 Di USD (if small and light is needed) and a Sigma 70-200mm F2,8 EX DG OS HSM (the most recent version of that lens). The both work fine with my a850 as well as the a7s with LA-EA4 adapter. With regard to performance per weight, the Tamron is superior (quite light) and offers more zoom... pure image quality wise, the Sigma is preferable. The equivalent 70-200/2.8 Tamron is slightly superior to the Sigma (at least on a test bench) but offers no OSS with A-mount.

I am pretty sure there is currently no lens able to fully resolve a 50MPix sensor, so it's more a question what you need right now. Since the a7II has 24MPix as the old a850, the Sigma should be convincing offering you OSS.. there is no need for a tripod I would say (at least I never needed one...). Same should be valid for a FE 70-200 mm F4 G OSS als long as you wouldn't need the larger aperture...couldn't guess why one would need 2.8 in the mountains...

If you like to judge by yourself I can you provide (RAW) image samples of both lenses (Sigma, Tamron) on both bodies.

[addicted2light]

I am pretty sure there is currently no lens able to fully resolve a 50MPix sensor,

 

Sorry, but luckily it looks like you're mistaken. 

 

Check this out:

 

http://www.lenscore.org

 

These guys (no affiliation) have been testing lenses on a custom-made 200Mp sensor. According to them, every lens we already have will be able to exploit, to a certain degree, a 50Mp sensor. Obviously some cheap zoom will be able to do so just at f/8, while an Otus will start from full aperture. But still. Besides, wasn't that different on Velvia: you could not have good results with a crappy lens, no matter what you needed good glass.

 

The limit on a 35mm area seems to be around 100Mp; after that and many many lenses will not be able to convey enough detail (the MTF function will tend to zero, I think) to justify so many pixels WITH A BAYER PATTERN. My guess is that, with some variant of Foveon-like multi-layer architecture, and so with much larger pixels, we will be able to enjoy current lenses for many more years to come. It's a bit what happened in the CPU world: when they couldn't make them faster anymore because of overheating and overpowering issues, they changed architecture and started doing multi-processors CPUs.

 

You can also check a post of mine of a few weeks ago in which I tried to translate Lenscore ratings into megapixels:

 

http://www.addicted2light.com/2015/01/29/are-sensors-outresolving-lenses-keep-reading/

 

It looks like we will not have to run buying new expensive stuff. Yeah, I know this sucks  

[addicted2light]

My sample's aperture got stuck (oil) and Zeiss wanted 1.800€ for the repair. I'm still laughing... I solved this just adapting the lens to Canon (5€) and buying one of these Canon to Sony adapters with an aperture inside (20€).

 

Sorry if I quote myself, but the "edit" button was gone and I noticed I made a mistake.

 

In the interest of someone else who should stumble onto this post searching of a solution for a stuck aperture: I got confused with another lens! I did not repair the Contax 100-300 using an adapter with an aperture inside (I tried that, but it vignetted like crazy). This morning I used the Contax and my first words taking it out of the bag were: "Oh crap!"  

 

I used instead a set of custom made limited edition "aperture lens caps". Basically I just drilled holes of the right size for f/5.6, f/8 and f/16 (and I keep this on as a normal lens cap) in universal 67mm not-center-pinch lens caps, lining the interior with the same adhesive flocking material used for the inside of the cameras (1€ an A4 piece).

 

It works perfectly.

[SAR_admin]

The Zeiss 100-300 seems to be a very interesting lens. If you would like even more reach I can also recommend the Sony 70-400 I. It can be had used for around 1000€ and you would have all the exif info and a great tripod colar. The biggest benefit would be the added reach butwhile lightweight for it's focal lenght it is still a heavy lens

Sony 70-400mmm doens't seem to be a very good lens (at least from the reviewes I read).

[SAR_admin]

What does prevent you from using the FE 70-200 mm F4 G OSS - good optical quality, light weight, no need for an adapter and a perfect combination with the A7r ? (AF can be switched off easily)

I am yet not sure 200mm is enough. Don't want to walk for a full day to a top of a mountain and than miss to have the extra tele

[Phillip Reeve]

Sony 70-400mmm doens't seem to be a very good lens (at least from the reviewes I read).

Sony 70-400mmm doens't seem to be a very good lens (at least from the reviewes I read).

I think I disagree. I think this review is quite accurate: http://artaphot.ch/minolta-sony-af/objektive/274-sony-al-70-400mm-f4-56

[Guest all8]

I am yet not sure 200mm is enough. Don't want to walk for a full day to a top of a mountain and than miss to have the extra tele

 

Will you be taking a tripod? If yes, then perhaps take 70-200G for general usage where the OIS will be very helpful ... and then take a fixed 400mm for the specific usage.

 

There seems to be quite a few options at 400mm, old Minolta and Sigma, going for a few 100 on eBay ... might take a look myself :-)