Need opinions on which A7 body/lenses to purchase for live entertainment photography

[PRMDigitalProductions]

I mainly shoot live entertainment such as theatre, concerts, and dance. I have been a Canon DSLR shooter for 5 years but I'm transitioning to Sony Mirrorless. I recently bought the a6300 and Zeiss Batis 85mm f/1.8 which I have used for headshots so far. I also bought the 24-70mm f/2.8 GM lens but I might be returning it (still in my 30 day window) because depending on my second body I might not be able to afford it. I am looking at the a7 II, a7S II, and a7R II. What body and lens combo would be recommended to compliment the a6300 and 85 Batis? When I shoot theatre I can usually move freely in the theatre because I'm shooting during dress rehearsals. Concert wise it's either pit or soundboard with the typical 3 songs. If I were to get the 7S2 or 7R2 I probably wouldn't be able to afford the 24-70mm GM or any other expensive lens to go with the 85 f/1.8 which I have already. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

[VTC]

Whichever one you end up with, run the hack that allows for pretty much unlimited (13 hr 59 min) video shoots. (And if applied, verify a firmware update doesn't prevent reapplication of the hack) That's made my A7SII usable for concert video shoots. You may not shoot past the 30 min stock limitation but having the ability makes life sweeter. Throw in a dummy battery connected to an external battery pack and life with a Sony gets worth living again.

[PRMDigitalProductions]

Whichever one you end up with, run the hack that allows for pretty much unlimited (13 hr 59 min) video shoots. (And if applied, verify a firmware update doesn't prevent reapplication of the hack) That's made my A7SII usable for concert video shoots. You may not shoot past the 30 min stock limitation but having the ability makes life sweeter. Throw in a dummy battery connected to an external battery pack and life with a Sony gets worth living again.

I really only shoot stills but thanks for the hack! Would you recommend the A7SII for what I need? What about lenses?

[Golem]

Forget about expensive top shelf lenses. Your working

conditions would seldom if ever benefit from premium

optics. Fancy lenses are no solution to low light work,

not that I'm suggesting you use trash, either :-)  

 

Expensive cameras are more useful in your context. In

spending more than the cost of your a6300 you can get

IBIS, incredible low light low noise sensors, and silent

shutter mode [which you already have]. Despite your

access to dress rehearsals, there's bound to be a few

occasional but important requests to shoot during real

performances, or during recording sessions. Toadally

silent shutters matter. Even a reeeally quiet shutter that

will never show up in the recordings will freak out anal

sound engineers ... pardon the redundancy there :-) 

  

OK. Nuff said. Time for the "loyal opposition" to speak !

[PRMDigitalProductions]

Forget about expensive top shelf lenses. Your working

conditions would seldom if ever benefit from premium

optics. Fancy lenses are no solution to low light work,

not that I'm suggesting you use trash, either :-)  

 

Expensive cameras are more useful in your context. In

spending more than the cost of your a6300 you can get

IBIS, incredible low light low noise sensors, and silent

shutter mode [which you already have]. Despite your

access to dress rehearsals, there's bound to be a few

occasional but important requests to shoot during real

performances, or during recording sessions. Toadally

silent shutters matter. Even a reeeally quiet shutter that

will never show up in the recordings will freak out anal

sound engineers ... pardon the redundancy there :-) 

  

OK. Nuff said. Time for the "loyal opposition" to speak !

Thanks for the input! Do you have any specific recommendations?

[SpaceManSpiff]

For that kind of low-light work, I would lean towards the A7SII (unless you often need to print large, or crop your images in post).  Excellent high ISO performance, IBIS, and a silent shutter option.  Something like a Rokinon 135mm f/2 could work well for tighter shots.

 

HTH

[PRMDigitalProductions]

For that kind of low-light work, I would lean towards the A7SII (unless you often need to print large, or crop your images in post).  Excellent high ISO performance, IBIS, and a silent shutter option.  Something like a Rokinon 135mm f/2 could work well for tighter shots.

 

HTH

So you'd recommend the 7SII over the 7RII? I know a few concert photographers love shooting with the 7RII. 

[Gilgenberg]

if you have the money go for the A7RII and the FE70-200 F2.8......!

 

you are more flexible because you can crop better because of the high sensor resolution and IBIS, great low ISO and

also if you like manual focus you can adapt cheap and great legacy glas and have OS

 

+1 for the Rokinon 135 F2 

 

 

if you want to save some money, go for the 7S...not the MII

 

if you go for the A7S you can add a LE-EA4 Lens adapter so you can adapt A mount lenses with OS like the very good Sigma 105mm 2.8 OS or the Sigma 150mm 2.8  

for sony A-mount

they have optical image stabilisation, great sharpness and awesome IQ

 

or the FE 70mm 200mm F4 with OS, the 2.8 G master would be better but is very expensive

 

you already have the 85mm ........ great!

 

decent but good on the short end very light and fast AF is the kit lens FE 28-70, from 28 - 40 it is very  good and has OS.......... from 50 - 70 it is boring

 

so if you plan to work with 2 body´s you have already with the batis 85, 2 lenses ......with 6300 a 130mm with A7xxx 85mm

 

with the kit lens you would have wit A7xx 28mm - 40mm and with 6300 42mm - 80mm, so a sigma 105 would be fitting..... 105 + 210

[Guest Peter Kelly]

I would recommend the A7Rii over the A7Sii every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

The AF is better, most of the time, and the lowlight performance is as good when resized. The only case for the A7Sii is in very low light, when the -4ev focussing would help, but even then it can be a slow 'hunting' process.

The A7Sii is really optimized for video and that is where it benefits.

 

However, if you do very little of that then the A7S makes far more sense. In fact, if you don't ever need the resolution then that would make the most sense.

To be honest, I really like the look of the A7S files and they are a lot easier when it comes to processing too. I would have kept with it, but I do use the resolution the A7Rii offers.

 

If I was you I'd save the money and get the A7S. They are a real bargain now!

[PRMDigitalProductions]

I would recommend the A7Rii over the A7Sii every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

The AF is better, most of the time, and the lowlight performance is as good when resized. The only case for the A7Sii is in very low light, when the -4ev focussing would help, but even then it can be a slow 'hunting' process.

The A7Sii is really optimized for video and that is where it benefits.

 

However, if you do very little of that then the A7S makes far more sense. In fact, if you don't ever need the resolution then that would make the most sense.

To be honest, I really like the look of the A7S files and they are a lot easier when it comes to processing too. I would have kept with it, but I do use the resolution the A7Rii offers.

 

If I was you I'd save the money and get the A7S. They are a real bargain now!

if you have the money go for the A7RII and the FE70-200 F2.8......!

 

you are more flexible because you can crop better because of the high sensor resolution and IBIS, great low ISO and

also if you like manual focus you can adapt cheap and great legacy glas and have OS

 

+1 for the Rokinon 135 F2

 

 

if you want to save some money, go for the 7S...not the MII

 

if you go for the A7S you can add a LE-EA4 Lens adapter so you can adapt A mount lenses with OS like the very good Sigma 105mm 2.8 OS or the Sigma 150mm 2.8

for sony A-mount

they have optical image stabilisation, great sharpness and awesome IQ

 

or the FE 70mm 200mm F4 with OS, the 2.8 G master would be better but is very expensive

 

you already have the 85mm ........ great!

 

decent but good on the short end very light and fast AF is the kit lens FE 28-70, from 28 - 40 it is very good and has OS.......... from 50 - 70 it is boring

 

so if you plan to work with 2 body´s you have already with the batis 85, 2 lenses ......with 6300 a 130mm with A7xxx 85mm

 

with the kit lens you would have wit A7xx 28mm - 40mm and with 6300 42mm - 80mm, so a sigma 105 would be fitting..... 105 + 210

Thank you both! I've compiled 6 choices. Pick one :-)

 

A: a6300, a7 II, 24-70mm f/2.8 GM, Batis 85mm f/1.8

 

B: a6300, a7 II, 24-70mm f/4, 70-200mm f/2.8 GM

 

C: a6300, a7 II, 24-70mm f/4, 70-200mm f/4, 55mm f/1.8 or Batis 85mm f/1.8

 

D: a6300, a7R II, 24-70mm f/4, Batis 85mm f/1.8

 

E: a6300, a7S, 24-240mm f/3.5-6.3, 55mm f/1.8, Batis 85mm f/1.8

 

F: a6300, a7S, 24-70mm f/4, 55mm f/1.8, Batis 85mm f/1.8

[Guest Peter Kelly]

F. Unquestionably.

 

You might even be able to pick up a superb second hand A7S.

[PRMDigitalProductions]

F. Unquestionably.

 

You might even be able to pick up a superb second hand A7S.

Thanks! Would it still be unquestionably if I removed the 55mm? Just trying to save money if I can.

[PRMDigitalProductions]

There's this option too:

 

G: 2 a6300, Sigma Art 19mm f/2.8, Sigma C 30mm f/1.4, 55mm f/1.8, Batis 85mm f/1.8

 

This option would save me almost $2000.

[Guest Peter Kelly]

You could easily leave off the 55, although it's one of my favourite lenses.

Also, I'm sure you could cope extremely well with the 6300s instead, but there is something addictive about the low light ability of the A7S.

 

In that respect there are two ways of looking at your options:

 

1. Purely a business decision, in which case only buy what you absolutely need to allow you to get the shots required.

2. Discover what kit that you can afford gives you the most pleasure, both using and the finished results.

 

I'm very fortunate in that what I have now fits into both categories (I do lust after the Batis 85, though, but can't quite justify it)

[PRMDigitalProductions]

You could easily leave off the 55, although it's one of my favourite lenses.

Also, I'm sure you could cope extremely well with the 6300s instead, but there is something addictive about the low light ability of the A7S.

 

In that respect there are two ways of looking at your options:

 

1. Purely a business decision, in which case only buy what you absolutely need to allow you to get the shots required.

2. Discover what kit that you can afford gives you the most pleasure, both using and the finished results.

 

I'm very fortunate in that what I have now fits into both categories (I do lust after the Batis 85, though, but can't quite justify it)

I just sent you a personal message :-)

[SangRaal]

I shoot stills in small Clubs mostly at the request and pay of the local bands. Lately I have shot the inside of clubs and restaurants for newspaper / internet puff pieces and websites(the local newspapers fired all of their full time photogs). I am also in the process of switching from Canon to Sony. My old go to set up was the Canon 1D-X and Canon 85mm f-1.2 plus the Zeiss 135mm APO f-2.0. My current set up is an A7R2 coupled to sony 55mm f1.8 and sony35mm f-1.4(not happy with it) plus a sigma MC-11 Canon adapter plus my canon mount lenses especially the Sigma ART 35mm, 50mm, and 85mm all in f-1.4 plus the Zeiss 135mm APO. plus the Voigtlander 21mm f1.7 I find that the A7R2 has terrific high ISO performance coupled with Ibis stabilization and is ideal for this kind of photography.I began my Sony switch-over with the A7s and found that the files lacked the flexibility for extensive cropping as well as dynamic range for the recovery from undereposure or to bring detail out of shadow. The files from the A7R2 are really nice. you should be able to send back your 24mm to 70mm Gmaster to pay for about 2/3 of a new A7R2 and you should be able to get whoever sells you an A7R2 to include at N/C either a metabones mk4 or sigma MC-11 canon adapter. BTW you 85mm Batis should work fine hopefully you saved some of your canon lenses they work fine with the adapters.

[Gilgenberg]

There's this option too:

 

G: 2 a6300, Sigma Art 19mm f/2.8, Sigma C 30mm f/1.4, 55mm f/1.8, Batis 85mm f/1.8

 

This option would save me almost $2000.

 

i vote for "D" + "F"

 

A, B, C.....the A7II has no silent shooting! would be a deal breaker for me

 

maybe you can look after the 55 1.8 later

 

it is a great lens but there are so many great 50mm lenses out with manual focus, if you like MF you can spare a lot of money

 

one of my favorite lenses is a Minolta MC 55mm 1.7 and i got it for 20€

 

somehow the A7S has something special for me that you can not have with the 6300!

 

so i would not vote for "G"

 

the EVF is brilliant with the A7 series and dynamic with A7S and low ISO performance is awesome

 

as i said the A7R II would be the best option better EVF and resolution, as you can crop better you don´t need so much lenses (so you can also spare money) and composition of the shot can be more flexible 

 

i personally did not go for the A7RII only because i like the light weight and small body of the A7S ( and the need of more precise composing, and smaller RAW files)

 

as i had the A7RII in hand my 1 thought was..."uhhh bulky...not for me!"

 

 

!!!!!!!! you should test and feel the different cameras and lenses yourself !!!!!!!!!

 

as for my my first thought i had with the bulk of the IBIS body´s, you will immediately know if you like the lens or body if it is in your hand and you look through the EVF

 

hope that helps

 

Andreas

[PRMDigitalProductions]

I shoot stills in small Clubs mostly at the request and pay of the local bands. Lately I have shot the inside of clubs and restaurants for newspaper / internet puff pieces and websites(the local newspapers fired all of their full time photogs). I am also in the process of switching from Canon to Sony. My old go to set up was the Canon 1D-X and Canon 85mm f-1.2 plus the Zeiss 135mm APO f-2.0. My current set up is an A7R2 coupled to sony 55mm f1.8 and sony35mm f-1.4(not happy with it) plus a sigma MC-11 Canon adapter plus my canon mount lenses especially the Sigma ART 35mm, 50mm, and 85mm all in f-1.4 plus the Zeiss 135mm APO. plus the Voigtlander 21mm f1.7 I find that the A7R2 has terrific high ISO performance coupled with Ibis stabilization and is ideal for this kind of photography.I began my Sony switch-over with the A7s and found that the files lacked the flexibility for extensive cropping as well as dynamic range for the recovery from undereposure or to bring detail out of shadow. The files from the A7R2 are really nice. you should be able to send back your 24mm to 70mm Gmaster to pay for about 2/3 of a new A7R2 and you should be able to get whoever sells you an A7R2 to include at N/C either a metabones mk4 or sigma MC-11 canon adapter. BTW you 85mm Batis should work fine hopefully you saved some of your canon lenses they work fine with the adapters.

Thank you for your input!

[PRMDigitalProductions]

i vote for "D" + "F"

 

A, B, C.....the A7II has no silent shooting! would be a deal breaker for me

 

maybe you can look after the 55 1.8 later

 

it is a great lens but there are so many great 50mm lenses out with manual focus, if you like MF you can spare a lot of money

one of my favorite lenses is a Minolta MC 55mm 1.7 and i got it for 20€

 

somehow the A7S has something special for me that you can not have with the 6300!

 

so i would not vote for "G"

 

the EVF is brilliant with the A7 series and dynamic with A7S and low ISO performance is awesome

 

as i said the A7R II would be the best option better EVF and resolution, as you can crop better you don´t need so much lenses (so you can also spare money) and composition of the shot can be more flexible 

 

i personally did not go for the A7RII only because i like the light weight and small body of the A7S ( and the need of more precise composing, and smaller RAW files)

 

as i had the A7RII in hand my 1 thought was..."uhhh bulky...not for me!"

 

 

!!!!!!!! you should test and feel the different cameras and lenses yourself !!!!!!!!!

 

as for my my first thought i had with the bulk of the IBIS body´s, you will immediately know if you like the lens or body if it is in your hand and you look through the EVF

 

hope that helps

 

Andreas

Thanks! I think I'm leaning towards "F" and waiting on the 55mm f/1.8. I don't need silent shooting really because I'm always shooting dress rehearsals and for concerts it's really loud so shutter noise is a non issue. Having said that I'd still rather have the A7S or A7R II.

[Golem]

Thanks for the input! Do you have any specific recommendations?

  

Depends on whether you stick to APSC or go full frame.

For my low light habits and usual venue, IBIS rules, so

I'm using FF even tho I don't need that format for its size.

OSS lens that provide IS for APSC are slow lenses, and

also are new-ish lens. I use old lenses, fast lenses, and

usually both simultaneously.

  

I don't know how low your low light is, how much image

noise your clients will ignore [far more than most anyone

offering you online advice will ignore], I don't know your

work habits. I don't know the viewing conditions for your

images ... web page, flyers, posters, gallery prints, etc. 

   

There's one thing I do know : I would personally like less

noise than my a7-MkII even tho it's pretty good already.

There's one big thing I don't know: The noise difference

between the two upgrades over my a7-MkII. I know that

the "S" is even less noisy than the "R", but that the "R" is

spozed to be visible improvement over my basic a7-MkII.

 

I have not been greatly motivated to research differences

between two premium bodies that I can't afford. But even

without intentional research, I've caught on to this much:

The "R" has visibly lower noise than my basic a7-MkII but

it still doesn't have the incredible near-supernatural ability

of the "S" to deliver normal looking exposures in almost

toadall darkness, the ability to see in deep darkness much

better than a human, even a human who sits in the dark

for 10 minutes to adjust his eyesight. 

  

For myself I want the "S" cuz some of my venues are very

verrrrry dark, but more important to me is the potential for

personal noncommercial creativity derived from seeing in

the dark, where the colors and lighting are fascinating, if

only cuz they are not visible even to a well adjusted eye. I

like to believe I got more creative strengths than to rely on

the "if only" factor, but it's a great starting point.  

  

OTOH concerning my favoring "S" over "R" is that I don't

give a ratzazz about resolution. In challenging the dark, I

care far more about content, mood, and other "pictorial"

concerns than about techie IQ. IQ is a battleship anchor

for your flights of imagination. 

 

YMMV. Everybody's does :-)

[PRMDigitalProductions]

Depends on whether you stick to APSC or go full frame.

For my low light habits and usual venue, IBIS rules, so

I'm using FF even tho I don't need that format for its size.

OSS lens that provide IS for APSC are slow lenses, and

also are new-ish lens. I use old lenses, fast lenses, and

usually both simultaneously.

  

I don't know how low your low light is, how much image

noise your clients will ignore [far more than most anyone

offering you online advice will ignore], I don't know your

work habits. I don't know the viewing conditions for your

images ... web page, flyers, posters, gallery prints, etc. 

   

There's one thing I do know : I would personally like less

noise than my a7-MkII even tho it's pretty good already.

There's one big thing I don't know: The noise difference

between the two upgrades over my a7-MkII. I know that

the "S" is even less noisy than the "R", but that the "R" is

spozed to be visible improvement over my basic a7-MkII.

 

I have not been greatly motivated to research differences

between two premium bodies that I can't afford. But even

without intentional research, I've caught on to this much:

The "R" has visibly lower noise than my basic a7-MkII but

it still doesn't have the incredible near-supernatural ability

of the "S" to deliver normal looking exposures in almost

toadall darkness, the ability to see in deep darkness much

better than a human, even a human who sits in the dark

for 10 minutes to adjust his eyesight. 

  

For myself I want the "S" cuz some of my venues are very

verrrrry dark, but more important to me is the potential for

personal noncommercial creativity derived from seeing in

the dark, where the colors and lighting are fascinating, if

only cuz they are not visible even to a well adjusted eye. I

like to believe I got more creative strengths than to rely on

the "if only" factor, but it's a great starting point.  

  

OTOH concerning my favoring "S" over "R" is that I don't

give a ratzazz about resolution. In challenging the dark, I

care far more about content, mood, and other "pictorial"

concerns than about techie IQ. IQ is a battleship anchor

for your flights of imagination. 

 

YMMV. Everybody's does :-)

I'm leaning more towards the a7S even though my venues I shoot in aren't extremely low light. Having said that I might have to one day and then I'll be prepared. As far as the resolution goes I think 12mp is enough for me but I like to crop my images and you really can't do a lot of that with the 7S. In that regard I love that with the 7R2 you can crop until you can't crop anymore lol. What to do ugh!

[PRMDigitalProductions]

So it's looking like the A7 II or A7S with the 24-70mm f/2.8 GM and Batis 85mm f/1.8 vs. the A7R II with the 24-70mm f/4 and Batis 85mm f/1.8. What does everyone think?

[Gilgenberg]

go in a shop and take them in your hand!

.

.
.
.
.
and

i would go for the better lens...

 

you never know what comes next in the line of great body´s, but lenses are much more constant

 

you will keep them and you know them.....very important!

 

you already know i´m a fan of the A7S so a good 2.8 lens with the high iso of the A7S....IMO no need for IBIS except Tele

but Batis 85 has already OSS, and 12MP RAW files are great to store and to process

 

so i vote for the first option A7S + 2.8 GM lens

[Golem]

Stage ighting has become almost completely LED for small

stages. I don't know if "real theatre" is LED or still hot lights.

  

LED illumination kinda limits shutter speeds to about 1/30".

In my book, that recommends IBIS even for short lenses.

Any concern about cropping from a 12MP image should be

matched by concern about image softness from low shutter

speeds. Images of marginal sharpness cannot stand much

cropping before they look worse than marginal.

[steve of stonehenge]

Don't rule out used lenses.  I bought my Sony 55mm f1.8 and Sony 35mm f2.8 on eBay.  I got it for a 25% discount versus the brand new price.  There is a slight risk dealing with eBay, but I had good results.  Since both Sony 55mm and 35mm  have been around since the beginning of A7, there are plenty of good copies available at reasonable prices.  B & H Photo  and KEH.ocm both are reputable used dealers although higher priced than eBay.