Summilux 50mm f1.4 ASPH owners. Care to share your thoughts?

[joshinthecity]

Hiya.

I'm keen to hear from owners of the 50 Lux' shooting on A7 bodies if any owners would like to share their impressions.

I'm getting close to pulling the trigger. For me it is an exceptionally big purchase, and the lens will probably be handed down to my kids. 

I don't own a Leica body, so the lens will primarily be shot on an A7II.

 

Thanks in advance,

Josh (Sydney)

 

 

 

[Guest all8]

If its a big purchase then taking a rental for a day could be an idea, or having the seller let you use the lens for an hour or two. Although I've not tired it myself (Loxia 50mm cured me of that desire, as well as the APO interest - there seems little point in either), reports seem generally positive and thus far I'm not see the problems that occur with the 28 Elmarit, which I use, in any pictures on the Web.

 

But for that kind of money I would try it first just to be sure, because its not to hard to find negative comments about that lens in particular and you have to decide if those things matter to you. I simply can't stand the 28 Elmarit or 40mm Voigtlander on my A7ii, but on film both are great.

[ldog]

I've been using and loving this amazing lens for several years now first on a Sony A7R, then A7S and now an A7Rii as my only lens for weddings (except for wide angle family shots). I shoot the thing wide open much of the time so I don't care about the corners at all. I can't comment on the corner sharpness for  landscape as I only shoot wide angle for this. But the corners at max magnification look pretty good in the viewfnder by f5.6. The attached shots are from the 50 lux ASPH on the A7S. BTW I've actually added the vignettes as the lux actually has rather mild vignetting. This lens plays really well with the Sony sensor and the color is super rich and full and the rendering of this lens really sets my shots appart from the usual. Negatives? The only one I can think of is that it's not quite as happy shooting directly into the sun as a Canon 50 f1.2. So when shooting with backlight just stand behind a tree and play with the sun. This is my favorite lens pretty much of all time. It will be handed down to your kids as you'll never sell it.

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[Guest Colin Scott Johnson]

Having owned an M240 and M Monochrome with 50 Cron F2 (rigid and new), 50 Lux (type 2 and latest)  and 50 Cron F2 APO, I can tell you that you are better served by purchasing the Zeiss Loxia 50 F2.

 

Rangefinder lenses are not optimal on Sony A7 bodies. Do some research. They can be improved by having the sensor glass reduced, but they are still not optimal.

The Loxia 50 is up there with the Leica Cron F2 APO.

 

My advice, don't buy RF glass to use on Sony.

Adapt it and have fun with it if you already own it.

 

My Leica's are all sold as well as the glass and I now have A7r II, A7s II, both Loxia and both Batis lenses as well as the excellent 55 F1.8.

These are lenses designed for the camera.

 

HTH

[ldog]

I too have forsaken my Leica M240 and M Monochrom bodies in favor of the Sony A7's and I agree with HTH that rangefinder lenses may not be "optimum" on A7 bodies. Also Zeiss E mount designed lenses such as the Loxia, Batis and the Sony Zeiss 55 f1.8 are all fantastic lenses and are a much much much safer choice. Mating any third party lens to an A7 body is a bit like playing the lottery. To make it worse each of the A7 series bodies seems to respond differently to any given lens and you must get the right version of any given focal length to have success. Madness. Replacing the thick 2mm sensor glass with the sub 1mm glass helps the corners but it also introduces a whack color balance shift so I wouldnt go there.  So yes, HTH is right. Danger Ahead. But I'd like to speak for the beautiful exceptions that do exist. It all comes down to just how much you must have that Leica rendering, which is different than the Zeiss. Leica and Zeiss both make great lenses, but they are also different in character. I just happen to like Leica. So with much trial and expensive error I have arrived at a Leica prime kit that works wonderfully on my A7Rii. My lenses are the Elmarit M 1:2.8/21 ASPH, Elmar-M 1:3.8/24 ASPH, Elmarit M 1:2.8/28, Summicron M 1:2/35 ASPH and finally the Summilux M 1:1.4/50 ASPH. For me, it was worth the pain and I'm getting exhibition quality 20" x 30" prints from my Rii that rival or best my Pentax 645Z images in quality. The image quality the 50 Lux wedding shots speak for themselves. The first poster got it totally right, rent one. Your milage may vary.

[Guest Colin Scott Johnson]

I would try the Loxia 50 before anything.

If you don't believe me, check Steve Huff.

He also thinks it is as good as the 50mm F2 Summicron APO.

 

I have owned most of the most popular Leica lenses (old and new) and in my opinion, the best rendering lenses available for Leica M are:

 

21mm F3.4 Super Elmar-M

50mm F2 Summicron APO

90mm F2 Summicron APO

 

and yes, good as the 50 Lux is, I don't think it is anything close to the 50 APO.

 

However, I still sold mine and bought Loxia 35 F2, Loxia 50 F2, Batis 25 F2 and Batis 85 F1.8

On the A7r II and A7s II they are every bit as good any of the best Leica glass on the M 240 or MM.

 

The Loxia 50 will cost you $1000. Save the $3000 and go to SE Asia to shoot the thing

 

Hope This Helps

[Guest Colin Scott Johnson]

Comparison of Summicron 50mm F2 APO and Zeiss Loxia 50mm F2

 

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2015/03/16/battle-of-the-champions-leica-m-50-apo-vs-sony-a7ii-50-zeiss-loxia-by-brad-husick/

[joshinthecity]

If its a big purchase then taking a rental for a day could be an idea, or having the seller let you use the lens for an hour or two. Although I've not tired it myself (Loxia 50mm cured me of that desire, as well as the APO interest - there seems little point in either), reports seem generally positive and thus far I'm not see the problems that occur with the 28 Elmarit, which I use, in any pictures on the Web.

 

But for that kind of money I would try it first just to be sure, because its not to hard to find negative comments about that lens in particular and you have to decide if those things matter to you. I simply can't stand the 28 Elmarit or 40mm Voigtlander on my A7ii, but on film both are great.

Thanks Timde.

Unfortunately here in Oz, there's nowhere I can rent one. I would if I could.

A agree about the 40 BTW. The 50 1.5 Nokton is great though (for colour) 

[joshinthecity]

I've been using and loving this amazing lens for several years now first on a Sony A7R, then A7S and now an A7Rii as my only lens for weddings (except for wide angle family shots). I shoot the thing wide open much of the time so I don't care about the corners at all. I can't comment on the corner sharpness for  landscape as I only shoot wide angle for this. But the corners at max magnification look pretty good in the viewfnder by f5.6. The attached shots are from the 50 lux ASPH on the A7S. BTW I've actually added the vignettes as the lux actually has rather mild vignetting. This lens plays really well with the Sony sensor and the color is super rich and full and the rendering of this lens really sets my shots appart from the usual. Negatives? The only one I can think of is that it's not quite as happy shooting directly into the sun as a Canon 50 f1.2. So when shooting with backlight just stand behind a tree and play with the sun. This is my favorite lens pretty much of all time. It will be handed down to your kids as you'll never sell it.

Thanks so much ldog. It's great to hear from someone who has used it extensively. That's very encouraging indeed :-) For me it will primarily be a "people" and "things" lens. So I think our requirements would be quite similar. Edge sharpness and mild vignetting are not a problem. What I'm looking for is "the look" 

Thanks again.

Josh.

[joshinthecity]

Having owned an M240 and M Monochrome with 50 Cron F2 (rigid and new), 50 Lux (type 2 and latest)  and 50 Cron F2 APO, I can tell you that you are better served by purchasing the Zeiss Loxia 50 F2.

 

Rangefinder lenses are not optimal on Sony A7 bodies. Do some research. They can be improved by having the sensor glass reduced, but they are still not optimal.

The Loxia 50 is up there with the Leica Cron F2 APO.

 

My advice, don't buy RF glass to use on Sony.

Adapt it and have fun with it if you already own it.

 

My Leica's are all sold as well as the glass and I now have A7r II, A7s II, both Loxia and both Batis lenses as well as the excellent 55 F1.8.

These are lenses designed for the camera.

 

HTH

Thanks ET.

I appreciate the info.

I've done as much research as I can. Which is kinda the point of coming here to ask actual users.. Your opinion clashes a bit with that of ldog, but it's just as valued I can assure you.

I probably should have put more info in the original post, about what I already have experience with.

I shoot an RX1R as a 35 (astonishing)

I have the FE 55 1.8 (also astonishing, especially for B&W)

I have the Voigtlander 50mm f1.5 Nokton. Chrome. (excellent character lens for colour, not great for B&W)

Also the Mitakon Zonghi Speedmaster "Dark Knight" 50mm f0.95. (still getting my head around this one, yet to shoot it at night)

Plus a few cheap-ish Legacy 50's (The Super-Takumar 50mm f1.8 is my fave)

 

The 3 lenses in the running for this next purchase, you have experience with.

 

The Loxia 50 f2  (possibly too close to both the Voigt and FE55 in result ?)

Summilux 50 f1.4 ASPH (very expensive, a big stretch for me at AU $5k but "the best" and a "keeper for life", would potentially make buying a Leica body in the future more attainable, if I already have this.)

and 

Batis 85 f1.8 ( I like the Zeiss look a lot, and do not have an exceptional 85 ) Not available in Oz yet...

[joshinthecity]

I too have forsaken my Leica M240 and M Monochrom bodies in favor of the Sony A7's and I agree with HTH that rangefinder lenses may not be "optimum" on A7 bodies. Also Zeiss E mount designed lenses such as the Loxia, Batis and the Sony Zeiss 55 f1.8 are all fantastic lenses and are a much much much safer choice. Mating any third party lens to an A7 body is a bit like playing the lottery. To make it worse each of the A7 series bodies seems to respond differently to any given lens and you must get the right version of any given focal length to have success. Madness. Replacing the thick 2mm sensor glass with the sub 1mm glass helps the corners but it also introduces a whack color balance shift so I wouldnt go there.  So yes, HTH is right. Danger Ahead. But I'd like to speak for the beautiful exceptions that do exist. It all comes down to just how much you must have that Leica rendering, which is different than the Zeiss. Leica and Zeiss both make great lenses, but they are also different in character. I just happen to like Leica. So with much trial and expensive error I have arrived at a Leica prime kit that works wonderfully on my A7Rii. My lenses are the Elmarit M 1:2.8/21 ASPH, Elmar-M 1:3.8/24 ASPH, Elmarit M 1:2.8/28, Summicron M 1:2/35 ASPH and finally the Summilux M 1:1.4/50 ASPH. For me, it was worth the pain and I'm getting exhibition quality 20" x 30" prints from my Rii that rival or best my Pentax 645Z images in quality. The image quality the 50 Lux wedding shots speak for themselves. The first poster got it totally right, rent one. Your milage may vary.

Why is this decision so hard?

I've heard about the sensor glass mod, but I'm not interested in going there..

What I want is to be able to put the Lux on my adaptor, slap it on the A7II and get the Leica Look. Am I asking / expecting too much here?

One thing that's for sure, is that I am a chap of moderate means. I absolutely can NOT afford to make a 5k mistake on this one. But I just don't think I'm going to be able to get over chasing that 50 ASPH look that I love so much.

Grrr...

[joshinthecity]

I would try the Loxia 50 before anything.

If you don't believe me, check Steve Huff.

He also thinks it is as good as the 50mm F2 Summicron APO.

 

I have owned most of the most popular Leica lenses (old and new) and in my opinion, the best rendering lenses available for Leica M are:

 

21mm F3.4 Super Elmar-M

50mm F2 Summicron APO

90mm F2 Summicron APO

 

and yes, good as the 50 Lux is, I don't think it is anything close to the 50 APO.

 

However, I still sold mine and bought Loxia 35 F2, Loxia 50 F2, Batis 25 F2 and Batis 85 F1.8

On the A7r II and A7s II they are every bit as good any of the best Leica glass on the M 240 or MM.

 

The Loxia 50 will cost you $1000. Save the $3000 and go to SE Asia to shoot the thing

 

Hope This Helps

Thanks ET.

I have read ALL the reviews, but I will absolutely read Steve's again.

You're right up my alley with the SE Asia thing. BTW... :-)

[Guest all8]

Thanks Timde.

Unfortunately here in Oz, there's nowhere I can rent one. I would if I could.

A agree about the 40 BTW. The 50 1.5 Nokton is great though (for colour) 

 

Even in OZ, for that kind of money, you have no problem taking the lens for a test drive. Especially if its a "reach" to afford it, you will want to check you have a good copy in any case.

 

 

Why is this decision so hard?

I've heard about the sensor glass mod, but I'm not interested in going there..

What I want is to be able to put the Lux on my adaptor, slap it on the A7II and get the Leica Look. Am I asking / expecting too much here?

One thing that's for sure, is that I am a chap of moderate means. I absolutely can NOT afford to make a 5k mistake on this one. But I just don't think I'm going to be able to get over chasing that 50 ASPH look that I love so much.

Grrr...

 

The primary problem is that this lens is designed for Film, so you have to try it and see if you are happy with it. Its a good idea since M-Mount will be around for ever, perhaps E-mount only 5 years. Second hand is also an option but I guess in OZ that market is rather small.

 

I had the same dream once, then came the Loxia 50mm and from sample shots I could not really see any difference to the 50 APO from Leica ... sooo ... for factor 3-6 less than the Leica I put my silly dreams to one side      I now have my eye on a Zeiss spotting scope, the kids will enjoy that more that a 50 APO when I'm dead, and they would enjoy it more when I'm alive too. It has a camera adapter.   

 

Try, if you like it then do it. From you photos on F. it seems like a good match. Try a Loxia 50 too, you never know, the close focus makes it far more versatile.

[joshinthecity]

Thanks again Timde.

Here is my thinking re the Loxia: Tell me if It's flawed..  which is absolutely possible.

 

1: I love it and I want it.

However....

2: Given that I already have (and love) the FE55, I feel like it would be two lenses that would provide quite similar results, at the same (ish) focal length.. and that if I was going to not get the Summilux, I'd be better-off going with the Batis 85, as opposed to the Loxia, as it would give me a focal length I don't have, + AF.

[joshinthecity]

Comparison of Summicron 50mm F2 APO and Zeiss Loxia 50mm F2

 

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2015/03/16/battle-of-the-champions-leica-m-50-apo-vs-sony-a7ii-50-zeiss-loxia-by-brad-husick/

I re-read the review ET,

While enlightening to a degree. It was all about sharpness. Which in this instance is not my primary concern..

It was however, a very good job of comparing the sharpness of the two, which was VERY close indeed...

[Guest all8]

I only see the Loxia 50 as an alternative to m-mount lenses. People using these lenses don't care about AF, and quite a few own several 50mm lenses! But a Batis is for something else so think beyond the focal length.

[joshinthecity]

Just saw this on Flickr.

A7RII + 50 ASPH. It's exactly the look I'm after.

_DSC0202 by funkyjazing, on Flickr

[joshinthecity]

This one has "it" too.

Same combo. Different photographer..

DSC02046 by MicxC, on Flickr

[joshinthecity]

This is absolutely The Look I'm talking about. Maybe I'm super-sensitive to it. But this just screams "Leica Glass" to me in a way I find just so compelling, I'm just about ready to skip a mortgage payment for it.

Is it just me? 

This was also shot on an A7RII  (I assume it would be a similar result in the same circumstances on my A7II.)

 

20151130-172949_07881 by 待宵草 (Gino Zhang), on Flickr

[LCT]

First post here, Hi Andreas and others ☺. I've got some moiré from time to time with sharp lenses like Summilux 50/1.4 asph but my A7s has a modified sensor stack so i don't know how the lens behaves on your body. Given the price of the beast, i would rent a copy if i were you.

[Guest all8]

These are some Loxia photos with similar characteristics:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/laario/23574052321/in/pool-zeiss-loxia/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/109279033@N02/22767905043/in/pool-zeiss-loxia/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/laario/23390657085/in/pool-zeiss-loxia/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rlfirth/22916571212/in/pool-zeiss-loxia/

 

and I have photos of my kids, taken with the Loxia, which are not great ... but ... you can see exactly the potential of the lens (in the direction of Leica style) so its really much more a case of (lack of) ability on my part. Just in-case you are thinking it is the lens taking these great photos     

[joshinthecity]

I see exactly what you're saying timde

Those images are most of the way there, I'd agree.

 

But it's that last 10%..  you know?

 

The more I think about it (I've slept on it.. twice...)

I think I should hold off until I can afford (possibly never) a Leica body.

 

No point stretching right to the edge, then knowing the IQ is never as good as it could be, because the body is letting me down..

This is a serious bummer for me. But I think it's the right decision.

[LCT]

I don't want to sell you a Sony body (old Leica user here ) but my little A7s/Kolari works fine with Leica lenses. The Sony has less resolution but it is as clean at 6400 iso as my M240 at 3200 more or less. It is not a rangefinder though but the silent mode of the Sony is a real blessing. FWIW.

[joshinthecity]

Thanks LCT.

It's conflicting reports like this that are making me crazy. Some say the 50 ASPH is incredible on an A7II. Close to the best combo out there.

Some say it isn't. It's too far from the sensor and the results are less than awesome. Normally I wouldn't be such a baby about it.... but at 5k, as I said earlier. I can't really afford a mistake. I would actually consider a Leica body down the track. But it's not going to happen right now. I'm very happy with my Sony cameras.. 

The thinking / research continues. But at some point (soon). I have to call it .

[pfogle]

Hang on a sec, are you saying you can tell when a photo is shot on Leica glass, irrespective of camera setting, post processing, the camera it was shot on, the light conditions etc etc???

 

I'm sorry to sound skeptical, but I find this hard to accept. I've nevery been able to tell in a blind test - and I've used a lot of lenses, including Leica glass.

 

What I do know (about myself) is that after a while I always end up thinking the grass is greener somewhere else...so I tend not to sink thousands into a hunk of glass (but that's probably why other peoples' pictures are better than mine )

 

-- Josh, just looked at your flickr, you have great shots there - the sarcasm was not dircected at you! But I suspect those conflicting reports you mention will continue to plague you after you've bought the lens...