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Sony FE 100-400 GM possible defect in lens or design w/a7s2


babyleon
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I shoot mostly video of birds and other wildlife.  My primary body is a Sony a7S2.  I almost always use a tripod and prefer to have image stabilization always turned on.  This worked well with a Sigma 50-500, with and without 2x converter, using a LAEA4 adapter.  I just purchased the Sony FE 100-400 GM and Sony 2x converter.  I am not sure the OSS is working properly.

 

When the lens is attached, the IBIS internal steadyshot menu option is not available, whether the lens OSS is on or off.  I can somewhat understand that as they might conflict  but it would still be nice to be able to use one or the other.  I wonder if this is the case with other a9 or a7 series cameras

 

However, what is not acceptable is that with or without the converter, in any "photo" mode, I have to partially depress the shutter release to activate the lens OSS.  Not only that, while doing so the camera/lens appears to need some movement or shake for the OSS to kick in.  And when the shutter is released, the OSS turns off.  I often video from one of the photo modes so that is a problem.

 

When in the camera's "movie" mode the lens OSS seems to be turned on without pressing the shutter release but again, it seems to still require some seconds of camera/lens movement or shaking before it activates.  This is also a big problem as a few seconds is often all that is possible when filming birds.

 

I think that when any lens OSS is switched on it should be on and working and not need any other action to make it start working.  Perhaps my lens is defective.  If not, these are some serious design flaws.

 

I would appreciate anyone using this lens with an a7 or a9 series camera body letting me know if they have the same results.

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When the lens is attached, the IBIS internal steadyshot menu option is not available, whether the lens OSS is on or off.

same results.

 

I tried that only yesterday night with my A9 and the Sony FE 100-400 GM and it worked perfectly. Turning OSS switch on the lense to "ON" enables the steadyshot menu items, and turning OSS switch on the lense to "OFF" disables the steadyshot menu items. To narrow down the cause of any possible error by method of exclusion: Is the behaviour regarding OSS-switch and menu the same if you connect the lense directly to the body, without the 2x converter?

 

The second thing is, that Sony explicitely recommends (page 158) turning steady shot off, when mounting to a tripod.

 

The third thing is, that any steady shot mechanism needs some sort of shake or vibration, in order to kick in. Because, after all, the steady shot (IBIS, OSS) can at best only compensate for what's really there. If there is no shake, what do you expect the image stabilisation to do for you? Do some pre-emptive de-shaking?

 

If you are concerned about the shake you may introduce by pushing the trigger: try a wireless trigger. I am perfectly happy with this one.

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Guest Jaf-Photo

Most manufacturers recommend turning off stabilisation when using a tripod. This is because the mechanism may introduce shake in the picture if the camera is not moving. However, when you're shooting outdoors the wind usually makes the tripod sway so stabilisation may be needed for video and long exposures.

 

Regarding the logic programming of OSS/IBIS, only Sony can provide a full answer as the workings may not be apparently observable.

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I tried that only yesterday night with my A9 and the Sony FE 100-400 GM and it worked perfectly. Turning OSS switch on the lense to "ON" enables the steadyshot menu items, and turning OSS switch on the lense to "OFF" disables the steadyshot menu items. To narrow down the cause of any possible error by method of exclusion: Is the behaviour regarding OSS-switch and menu the same if you connect the lense directly to the body, without the 2x converter?

 

The second thing is, that Sony explicitely recommends (page 158) turning steady shot off, when mounting to a tripod.

 

The third thing is, that any steady shot mechanism needs some sort of shake or vibration, in order to kick in. Because, after all, the steady shot (IBIS, OSS) can at best only compensate for what's really there. If there is no shake, what do you expect the image stabilisation to do for you? Do some pre-emptive de-shaking?

 

If you are concerned about the shake you may introduce by pushing the trigger: try a wireless trigger. I am perfectly happy with this one.

Thank you.

 

Do you shoot video or photos?  I am well aware of the "turn off stabilization when using tripod" recommendations.  That might apply to photos but for wildlife video, my field experience with long focal lengths has proven that to be the lesser option.  I almost always get better results using stabilization with a tripod. 

 

Your first paragraph does not make sense to me.  If anything, I would think if the OSS switch is "on", the Steadyshot camera option should NOT be available.  If OSS switch is off", the Steadyshot camera option should be available.  In any case, my situation with the a7S2 is that the Steadyshot camera option is never available when this les is mounted.

 

Yes, I have tested with and without 2.0x converter with the same results.  I have also tested it with an a7S body and an NEX-7 body with the same results.

 

When the stabilization in my Sigma 50-500 is switched on, it is on.  It does not require any shaking to activate.  The same with my Sony 18-200.  Why should this considerably more expensive lens require excessive shaking to activate OSS?

 

Though it helps with shooting photos on a tripod, I find a cable release is not really meaningful for vibration when shooting video.  Even so, I use a Sony wired remote mounted on the tripod pan handle for convenience.

 

And again with photos, if the OSS only activates when depressing the shutter release and deactivates as soon as you let go when you stop, that is not a problem.  You are using the shutter release to take the photo.  But for video the shutter release is not used so it is a huge problem.  Try it.

 

If this lens is only suitable for photos, and maybe video in a studio situation (or with a new a9 body), it won't work for me.

 

Thanks.

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Well, that's interesting. And I can compete neither with your experience nor with video shooting either.

 

That said, I again read very carefully my previous statement regarding co-operation between lens OSS and body IBIS. And I have nothing to take back in that regard. You seem to expect, that it should be an exclusive-OR for OSS and IBIS, while in my setup everything points to a logical AND. Either both are ON, or both are OFF. I was unable to select only one of the two.

 

IF the OSS switch is set o ON, the menu shows two items:

 

  • SteadyShot [AUTO | Manual].

If this is set set to Auto, the second option is disabled.

 

If this is set to Manual, one can set the other menu item

  • SteadyShotFocus to a value between 8mm and 1000mm (a long, but imited list of discreet options).

This seems to be a scaling factor for the sensitivity of the shake compensation. Long focus lenses introduce a lot more of "jitter" in the image, compared to a short focus lens being exposed to the same amount of shaking. Thus the long focus lenses require significantly more compensatory movement of the sensor.

 

To check for compatibility issues:

The SEL100400GM is claimed by Sony to be compatible with the SEL20TC (2.0 tele converter).

The SEL100400GM is also claimed by Sony to have compatibility issues when used with the SEL20TC against the ILCE-7SM2 body:

 

 "When a Teleconverter (SEL20TC) is mounted, aperture values over 64 in the Exposure Setting Guide will not be displayed correctly."

 

That in itself should not be an issue. Let's hope the list of compatibility issues is complete.

 

I have also checked for firmware update issues:

The only firmware update for the SEL100400GM (version 02) is done for compatibility with the A9, according to Sony.

The SEL20TC doesn't seem to have any firmware at all.

And updates to the ILCE-7SM2 firmware (v3.0) seem to be unrelated to either SEL20TC or SEL100400GM.

 

So, I'm afraid this looks like you have to pay your dealer a visit and make him work it out. Sorry I can't help any further. Please keep us posted.

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Well, that's interesting. And I can compete neither with your experience nor with video shooting either.

 

That said, I again read very carefully my previous statement regarding co-operation between lens OSS and body IBIS. And I have nothing to take back in that regard. You seem to expect, that it should be an exclusive-OR for OSS and IBIS, while in my setup everything points to a logical AND. Either both are ON, or both are OFF. I was unable to select only one of the two.

 

IF the OSS switch is set o ON, the menu shows two items:

 

  • SteadyShot [AUTO | Manual].

If this is set set to Auto, the second option is disabled.

 

If this is set to Manual, one can set the other menu item

  • SteadyShotFocus to a value between 8mm and 1000mm (a long, but imited list of discreet options).

This seems to be a scaling factor for the sensitivity of the shake compensation. Long focus lenses introduce a lot more of "jitter" in the image, compared to a short focus lens being exposed to the same amount of shaking. Thus the long focus lenses require significantly more compensatory movement of the sensor.

 

To check for compatibility issues:

The SEL100400GM is claimed by Sony to be compatible with the SEL20TC (2.0 tele converter).

The SEL100400GM is also claimed by Sony to have compatibility issues when used with the SEL20TC against the ILCE-7SM2 body:

 

 "When a Teleconverter (SEL20TC) is mounted, aperture values over 64 in the Exposure Setting Guide will not be displayed correctly."

 

That in itself should not be an issue. Let's hope the list of compatibility issues is complete.

 

I have also checked for firmware update issues:

The only firmware update for the SEL100400GM (version 02) is done for compatibility with the A9, according to Sony.

The SEL20TC doesn't seem to have any firmware at all.

And updates to the ILCE-7SM2 firmware (v3.0) seem to be unrelated to either SEL20TC or SEL100400GM.

 

So, I'm afraid this looks like you have to pay your dealer a visit and make him work it out. Sorry I can't help any further. Please keep us posted.

Thank you again for your information.  I think I see where I misinterpreted your original paragraph.  On my a7S2 there are two Steadyshot-related menu choices.  The first choice is just "Steadyshot".  Right below that is the second choice "Steadyshot Settings" within which are the sub-menu choice of "Auto" and "Manual".  I think you are referring to the second choice which is always available on my a7S2 whether the lens OSS is switched on or off, and I fully understand those.  I was referring to the first choice,"Steadyshot".  With the 100-400 mounted, that choice on my a7S2 is grayed-out - not available, whether the lens OSS is switched on or off.  The status of the lens OSS switch is displayed there as on or off but it can not be accessed.  This where I thought the Steadyshot (IBIS) might be available if the lens OSS is switched off. I apologize for that misinterpretation.  Still, I would like to use IBIS if the lens OSS is switched off but apparently that is not meant to be.

 

With respect to the 2X teleconverter compatibility issue, I don't usually use the Exposure Setting Guide anyway.  Besides, I can't imagine ever having enough light, using this lens and 2X teleconverter, to shoot above f64 even if I wanted to....

 

Even though it is not listed as germane to my issue, before posting here I did update the a7S2 firmware to 3.0 to eliminate that as a possible influence.  I also attempted to update the lens firmware to 2.0 but it would not allow updating, probably because it is not an a9 body.

 

My supplier, B&H Photo in New York, is checking with a Sony technician on my questions and will get back to me.  Whatever I learn I will post here.  I first would like to make sure my lens is not defective.  If it is not defective, I just need to decide if I can work with it.

 

From this and other similar forums I am already learning more.  It seems the OSS activates and remains on (without pushing the shutter) when the camera is recording video, in movie mode or any photo mode.  Because it is rather dark this time of year here and the weather unusually dismal on top of that, I have not yet had a good opportunity to test the lens in proper field conditions so I am limited to quite short distances in my house.  But I think my biggest remaining issue is the degree and duration of camera/lens movement required for the OSS to actually take effect and remain in effect.

 

Thank you again for your comments.  Cheers!

 

Wayne Hall

Anchorage

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Here is a link to a short and simple test of the delayed OSS I am experiencing with the Sony FE 100-400 GM.  Pretty ideal conditions: inside, tripod mounted, lens OSS switch to "1" position using a7S2 body:

 

This lens is going back for replacement or refund.  As is, defective or by design, it won't work for me.

 

https://youtu.be/DeW3nEvN1js

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Here is a link to a short and simple test of the delayed OSS I am experiencing with the Sony FE 100-400 GM.  Pretty ideal conditions: inside, tripod mounted, lens OSS switch to "1" position using a7S2 body:

 

This lens is going back for replacement or refund.  As is, defective or by design, it won't work for me.

 

https://youtu.be/DeW3nEvN1js

Whole lot of shaking going on...but can't make sense of what you were doing.

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Just out of interest I put my 100-400 on my A7rII and with steady shot at 400mm, it is rock solid, hand held.  Turning the stabilization off produced all kinds of jiggle despite my best efforts.  When the lens switch is in the On position, the menu stabilization choices in camera are not active.  Therefore there are only two options...you turn the IS on and off FROM THE LENS not the camera.

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Just out of interest I put my 100-400 on my A7rII and with steady shot at 400mm, it is rock solid, hand held.  Turning the stabilization off produced all kinds of jiggle despite my best efforts.  When the lens switch is in the On position, the menu stabilization choices in camera are not active.  Therefore there are only two options...you turn the IS on and off FROM THE LENS not the camera.

Thanks for the posts. In the test video I am just aimed at a table lampshade (weather and light here in Alaska now prevents doing anything like this outside). I wanted to make sure there was enough light. The camera/lens is mounted on a tripod and I am just pushing up and down on the pan bar to produce movement. There is a lot of movement required before any lens stabilization takes place.  For the test I definitely had the lens OSS switched on to the "1" position.  As I might have posted elsewhere here, when the lens is mounted, there is no camera "Steadyshot" menu choice available regardless of whether or not the lens OSS is switched on or off - it is grayed out.  The Steadyshot menu item reads "On" if the lens switch is on.  It reads "Off" if the lens switch is off.  But in either case it is not available.  I thought it perhaps should be available if the lens switch was off but it is not.  I would like to know how it reads for you on your A7rII.  Please let me know.  I have been trying to track this problem down.  I will be returning this lens to B&H in New York either for replacement or refund as the stabilization, actually lack of stabilization, I am getting now is unacceptable.  I would like to know if anyone else with similar equipment is seeing the same things with video.  Thanks again.

 

Wayne

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