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I Have a Dream - Mirorless A Mount with on Sensor PDAF?


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I know this might sound ridiculous or not economical realistic, or technically impractical, but as a long time FF A mount user who haven't make the move to FE just yet, I always had this thought in my mind.

 

I was wondering will Sony ever consider making the next FF A mount body mirrorless with on sensor PDAF? If so, it will be great beause I don't like the idea of adding a LA-EA4 between my lenses and the FE body since I have bad experince with the A77 and its SLT mirror.

 

Do educate me if I'm woring because for the last few years, CDAF on mirrorless seems to be fast enough to compete with traditional phase detection AF (Well, at least for a portrait photographer's pont of view). My OM-D EM-5 focus as fast or faster than my A850 / A300 and it is using only CDAF, of course m43 have a deeper DOF thus much more easy to focus. And the A6000's  4D Focus seems fast enough to fulfill many photographic challenges.

 

So, if FF E mount can achieve adequate AF performance with I don't know CDAF? Why can't A mount just be made the same way while be able to maintain legacy lenses mount without adapters and the beefy ergonomics I like becasue in my experience I tend to grip more harder on smaller bodies, which is not comfortable.

 

A Mount = Mirrors, Traditional Ergonimic, Bigger Battery,

       E Mount = Mirroless, Compact Form Factor, 

               The Mirror, it is still Nessesary? Flange Distance, Achilles Heel? The Paradox always kept me thinking... or maybe I'm just plain silly...

 

For 2 mount system with identical sensor size (Different in flange distance of course), what is the best strategy for Sony to differenciate both product rage while both series are getting more and more convergence in terms of IQ, feature and characteristic for each literation of product release. Of course if the key factor is the flange distance which ultimately decides the ease, size and quality of the lens designed for both cases (I don't know, longer flange distance is better or the shorter one for the long run? do let me know)

 

Imagine fitting the entire A7mk2 architecture inside a A99 body size, with less volume/size constrain to worry with, Sony can really go creative with A mount system with ample amount of card slots, ports, dails & knobs real estate, and maybe fitting in a bigger EVF, Display, bigger buffer memory, on-board storage and file manager, bigger heat sink for sensor thus 4K with 5-axis IBIS... I don't know, creativity is the limit.

 

Anyways, just sharing my thoughts~ no biggy~ and cheers~

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I agree. This makes a lot of sense. A bigger A-mount body is a necessity and it also looks more sexy than any A7 FE camera:

 

 

No it doesn't make sense!

Why should Sony longterm invest in two different bajonetts; Bodies and Lenses?

And I'm pretty shure, they will NOT!

For Canon or Nikon with their huge installed base this might be option - But Sony ... :rolleyes:

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I agree. This makes a lot of sense. A bigger A-mount body is a necessity and it also looks more sexy than any A7 FE camera:

 

I disagree. I think the A7 series cameras look extremely sexy. I really dislike the look of big old DSLRs.

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I don't think this has anything to do with the mount. I'm pretty sure Sony will come up with a bigger styled FE body.

They know pros want dual card slots, a bigger grip, a bigger battery and more processing power (heat sink). All that is possible with whatever mount they put on it though.

I wish for a larger EVF and more comfortable eyecup on the A7 too. Look at the X-T1, I tried it out once and was pleasantly surprised. I like the round eye-cup and the EVF feels huge. They wouldn't even need a bigger body for that.

 

I think they should make a new adapter for A lenses that integrates perfectly with a new, larger pro FE-body.

 

P.S.:

Sexy, huh? Let me help you.  :P

 

y_a7m2_desigin.jpg

 

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I agree. This makes a lot of sense. A bigger A-mount body is a necessity and it also looks more sexy than any A7 FE camera:

a-mount-camera.jpg

 

Couldn't agree more~!!! I Especially prefer the pentaprism hump which I think is sort of one of a kind in this age of time. 

 

sony-a850-drive-800.jpg

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I disagree. I think the A7 series cameras look extremely sexy. I really dislike the look of big old DSLRs.

 

Well, it all depends on personal taste. It is like watches, some like comtemporary design in Swatch, some like the more classic automatics like the sophisticated Tag Heuer's Monaco Calibre 6.

 

The A7 series's EVF slumpy hump is what I find unaesthetically odd and unbalanced with the entire NEX body design. ThusI  ended up getting myself a silver Olympus OM-D EM5 . The problem with A7 series's design is it stucked in a position of neither classic like the OM-Ds /Fuji X line of cameras nor looks modernly space-age like the Sigma dp Quattro series.

 

I don't know, maybe it is just me. But well, you know what they say, everyone have their cup of tea~ cheers

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I don't think this has anything to do with the mount. I'm pretty sure Sony will come up with a bigger styled FE body.

They know pros want dual card slots, a bigger grip, a bigger battery and more processing power (heat sink). All that is possible with whatever mount they put on it though.

I wish for a larger EVF and more comfortable eyecup on the A7 too. Look at the X-T1, I tried it out once and was pleasantly surprised. I like the round eye-cup and the EVF feels huge. They wouldn't even need a bigger body for that.

 

I think they should make a new adapter for A lenses that integrates perfectly with a new, larger pro FE-body.

 

P.S.:

Sexy, huh? Let me help you.  :P

 

y_a7m2_desigin.jpg

 

I think it is about the overall size they want to reduce on the NEX / A7 series body thus they have no choice but to come up with another mount without the flange of the mirror box, which is a good thing becasue Sony demonstrated to the world how compact & powerful a FF with IBIS can become. So it is an in-direct approach that in order to reduce size, Sony have to came up with a new mount. 

 

But, If they really want to offer on all the ample ports, dual card slots, bigger (or I say standard) battery pack, heat sink, ergonomics and performance, why bother make it small at the first place?

 

Anyways, you have to know, this is Sony we're dealing with, a company that loves to try out new stuff & idea (or shall we say affairs?) and abandon the old stuff they just made~!!! Look at the Mini-Disc, they end up with Net MD which is a NAND base player, The UMD on the PSP end up with another flash card format, and so much more ~

 

Sony first innovate the camera industry with the real Live View on the A mount A300 and then introduce compact APS-C E mount NEX bodies that are aimed to replace conventional DSLR, then again with SLT A mount bodies and again stun the world with the FF A7 E mount series, and what I hope now is they should do some magic on the A mount again and probably making it mirroless. You're right, it is not about the mount, it is the mirror~XD Cheers bro~=)

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Using a A7 mk2 and an A 99, I was disappointed by the fact of using the LA-EA4. It takes a lot of time to set first the LA-EA4, then the A mount lens (the eagle has time to fly away and the bee will find another flowerbed). If you are outside, do the change in your car and not in the wind. I experienced a pair of dusts on the sensor. You have also with the tiny A7 II a problem of stability: tiny, but also light and difficult to keep in big human paws with big fingers (lock on the right side between the lens and the grip). During the last weeks, Sony issued a lot of new E lenses, but not a single long one. 240 mm from the 24-240, I like it, but it's too short and at 24 has a magnificent distorsion. I think I will keep my heavy A99, with its heavy long lenses, perhaps without 3 axes stabilising, but with a bigger grip, a longer lasting battery, two cards slots, not so vulnerable to dust (the miror is a shield and the sensor far from the mount) and thanks to the number of lenses of all kinds, versatile. I will also keep the A7 II for landscapes and human subjects if I don't forget two or three spare batteries and a charger I can plug in my car.

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The LAE4 protects your sensor from dust.

At least it protects mine. I don't understand

your dust problem. Check your procedure.

My procedure is that the LAE4 is part of the

camera body, not part of the lens.

 

FWIW, mine is an LAE2, but that should

make no difference except for size of the

image circle ... nothing about dust.

  

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  • 4 weeks later...
... Look at the X-T1, I tried it out once and was pleasantly surprised. I like the round eye-cup ...

 

The A7 eyecups are much better than Fuji X-T1 ones.

I own both cameras and with sunlight from the side or a bit behind, the X-T1 eyecup is unusable!

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A7rii anybody?  42mp, bigger EVF, hybrid AF, 299 ON SENSOR PDAF points, focuses as fast as native with LA-EAx for A mount, or Metabones with Canon glass, FF, IBIS,  4k internal video, 102k ISO. What's not to like?  Yeah, yeah, I know, the horror, only 300 shots per battery charge. But 'ya know, it wasn't that long ago we all had to stop every 20 or 36 shots to change rolls of film.

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But this ist only a problem for people who think that a camera is a machine gun!

For all others it will last 2-3 days ;)

 

 

;) back atchya

 

And, back to the original topic...

 

Sony European product managers: "A-mount future: Sony answered that yes they are still developing the DSLT line and: “SLT cameras still offers some advantages like longer battery life, better grip, and whole functionally is still like DSLRs. We believe customers are still there and that they will love these DSLT cameras.”

 

A variation on Jesse's suggestion, why not put the A7rii technology in an A99ii A mount body? There would be lots of room for bells and whistles. Curious too they were talking about "developing the DSLT line", but maybe that was really a reference to form, not technology. Seems Sony has solved the CDAF focus problem with 399 PDAF focus points on sensor (my typo above). The SLT mechanism is now as obsolete as the SLR mirror. Use the remarkable new A7rii sensor, it's mirrorless everywhere, cheaper to produce, and continues to drive the FF price down.

 

Add an adapter to E mount glass, to provide complete transparency with Sony lenses. That immediately enables Metabones, et al adapters for Canon and Nikon lenses. If CaNikon folks can migrate their good glass to a body size they are comfortable with, that is a vehicle for Sony to take the market. I've also seen a suggestion that providing step by step control customizations that emulate common CaNikon operating setups would make a transition to a new body less painful.

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For at least over a year there are rumors that Sony will sooner or later kick the A-Mount. This leaves all users with a limited amount of money to spent for their equipment with the feeling to leave the ship before it's too late. Or with other words, before no one wants to buy the stuff.

 

The friends of mine are mostly Canon or Nikon and laughing about my future with Sony. Leaving me as an (enthusiastic) amateur with cams and lenses at the one hand I am not willing too pay for and small dwarfish cams on the other hand.

 

So my dream is surely not a mirroless A-Mount, but a company that did not forget the mass of normal customers. Well, in a half year we have christmas. That will be my deadline. It is a good one, because my family wont be hopefully not too angry when I come with the news to change my complete photostuff... ;-)  it should be more than enough that I will be angry by myself then.

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There have been several statements recently from Sony managers that they remain committed to A mount. The big money and opportunity is currently in E mount so that's what is getting the bulk of the effort. A mount looks to continue with three segments: Flagship, advanced, and entry level. Those are currently represented by A99, A77ii and A58, and will continue with their successors.

 

A mount pays for itself and we can be glad the R&D money is going into E mount so A doesn't have to shoulder that expense. That also means we can look forward to E mount features migrating to future A mount cameras, just as Jesse dreamed.

 

Think about it this way, A mount lenses are an incredible buy these days. You can get A mount glass that equals or exceeds Canon or Nikon at a fraction of the price, the joke's on CaNikon users. A mount primes and G's will resolve a 50mp sensor, so get 'em while they're cheap. Kodachrome took no prisoners, so those old film lenses had to be sharp, great color, and cover the whole full frame.

 

CaNikon DSLRs are dinosaurs that don't know they're dead yet. Get used to mirrorless, regardless of make or mount, it is the future, it is coming in a hurry, and the A7rii is another step along the way.

 

FWIW, A7ii works well for me, and runs my A mount lenses just fine, some of which go back to the late 1980's. It makes my "full size" DSLRs feel bloated, they are way bigger than the SLRs I started with 30 years ago. There's still a niche for larger bodies, but don't knock the smaller body until you've tried it.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just to have 2 mounts makes no sense over the longer term it seems to me. To rationalize that the A mount systems have better features such as dual memory slots and better battery etc. simply makes the point that an E mount camera with these features is needed albeit with likely a somewhat larger body. Combine  this with the elimination of the mechanical shutter and replace it with an all electronic one having a dynamic rather than fixed response (finding it origin based on film ) would constitute a more professional model

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I disagree. I think the A7 series cameras look extremely sexy. I really dislike the look of big old DSLRs.

How can any camera look 'sexy'?  Some have more similar characteristics and forms to others and some have more unique differences.  Some may have more pleasing lines to some people than others but I fail to see how a camera can have sex appeal.  A camera is a camera is a camera - nothing more, nothing less - nothing sexy about them.  That said, I can only really give the appellation of 'sexy' to a member of the opposite sex, that is, applied to a human being, not an assemblage of plastic and metal.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I have both A7II and A99. I find the larger lenses ( 150mm and up ) are better handled with the A99 body, so generally I use lenses up to 135mm with the A7II body ( E, A and other mounts w/ adapter ) and lenses above that with the A99 body ( obviously A-mount ).

IMHO an E-mount A99x mirrorless with current E-mount to sensor distance ( similar sensor as the A7RII - even more enhanced for AF ) maybe would provide the best of both worlds - a larger body to include all buttons, dials, etc, larger heat sink for sensor and processors, two card  slots, better grip for large lenses and so on...! A-mount lenses would use an "LA-EA5" ring adapter ( no mirrors, motors ) enhanced from the LA-EA3, and older A-mount lenses could keep using the LA-EA4. I believe that would be a solution that would survive very well with the A7Xxx line for quite a while.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'm very much in favour of seeing an A-Mount A7Rii camera.

 

Leverage off the back of the A7Rii, lower development cost, an obvious professional grade complement the existing range

 

E-mount, a light-weight travel friendly range and the A-mount less compromising range

 

Mirrorless design would widen the market reach into the Cannon & Nikon establishment

 

If the finance numbers stack up (Sales = shareholders return), why not?

 

From a marketing standpoint, such a Pro-model might re-enforce the market Sony is a serious long-term camera manufacturer.

 

Surely, the more "Pro" noise in the market, the more lesser model camera turn-over?

 

Win on Sunday, sell on Monday still holds true for the car industry

 

Hopefully Sony is listening

 

If so, I'm up for an EXCO or board position by the way!

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My sense is that, over time, E mount will be the dominate lens mount over A mount.  I also believe mirrorless will be the primary platform, and not DSLR.  There are simply more headroom to mirrorless to advance than DSLR.

 

What E mounts need is a better adapters to legacy lenses (i.e., A mount).  Adapters need to to enable autofocus at the same or better than native speed on A mount body.  And have one for EF and F mounts too, if Sony really wants to take them on.

 

As for sizing ergonomics, it does look, and feel odd, to see 200-400 telezooms on alpha 7 bodies, but perhaps we need a paradigm change on how to hold and view things.  I realize this is a difficult subject because people come in all different sizes and hand size makes a big impact on what feels comfortable in ones' hand.

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