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Hi,

 

I have been looking at getting a flash for my A6000, I want to get acapable system that I can use for the foreseeable future.

 

I am just starting out and finding my feet with photography.

 

So far I have found several options:

 

Sony hvl-f43m with another sony hvl-f20m flash as transmitter.

I am unsure of the combo, due to price and not knowing the conditions it'll fire. Does the f20m need to flash or does it do it wirelessly?

 

Nissin di700a with commander, ismit good value and work well?

Will I need an adaptor to fit the flash to the camera?

 

Phottix system, seems that the nissin is better however the odin needs an adaptors to make it work and will have to buy a phottix flash to get the best use of the transmitter

 

I am stuck with the choice, believing that the sony system should be the best for on and off camera with 2 flash options, but don't know the full working of the system.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

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Sony hvl-f43m with another sony hvl-f20m flash as transmitter.
I am unsure of the combo, due to price and not knowing the conditions it'll fire. Does the f20m need to flash or does it do it wirelessly?

 

This is an optical system where the trigger flash will emit a series of pre-flash for pre-measuring TTL power needed then command flash to get the wireless flash to trigger and stop. It is actually the infrared light from this that is actually giving the commands so some have designed an infrared filter to eliminate what little flash is coming from the on-camera trigger. It is simple, efficient unless you need to place your flash units far away from the camera (over 15ft as the book says buy it can work a little beyond that distance and i even tried it in bright sunlight and it worked flawlessly).

Up to now, this is the only TTL and WL system that i know of that works with adapted lenses that do not communicate with the body. 

 

In the set-up you described, your HVL-F20M would not actually provide much lighting. The F43M as a control unit could be set-up to provide some light due to its more advanced features (ratio control). If you want a dual light source system, you would need at least a F43M as on-camera controller calling up ratio and any of the remotes listed below.

 

Triggers can be: HVL-F20M, F32M, F43M, F60M without any adapter or with a Sony ADP-MAA adapter: HVL-F20AM, F43AM or F58AM

 

Remote flash units can be any of the above (except the 20's) plus any Sony HVL-F36AM, F42AM, F56AM or Minolta 3600HS(D) or 5600HS(D). These 5 last ones are often found on the used market for 100-200$

The 43, 58 and 60 model units can actually be configured in a multi channel system that allows to create 3 groups of flash units ( one group being the on-camera controller) that can offer different lighting ratios. 

Nissin di700a with commander, ismit good value and work well?
Will I need an adaptor to fit the flash to the camera?

 

Some people are having major issues with these ( broken shoe, unreliable TTL, battery drain after a few minutes, loss of WL pairing) so i ended up not trying this. In addition any repair or Firmware update has to be done at a service facility and since i am in Canada and i can't see any distributor/repair facility, i think this is a risky thing at least for some countries.

Phottix system, seems that the nissin is better however the odin needs an adaptors to make it work and will have to buy a phottix flash to get the best use of the transmitter

 

​I have this and it works well with all of the above Sony/Minolta flash units listed above ( including the 20's) plus the non-WL Minolta 2500D.

You don't need to buy a Phottix on-camera flash if you buy the trigger/receiver set first. Some off-brand flash units may not work at all with these. A nice feature is the remote control power and ratios from the controller unit.

Again this does not work with adapted lenses ( and i can tell you i tried everything i could to make them work) and until the Odin 2 becomes available for Sony with the MIS shoe, you will need an adapter (Sony ADP-AMA) and will still be limited by the native lens only compatibility.

 

 

I am stuck with the choice, believing that the sony system should be the best for on and off camera with 2 flash options, but don't know the full working of the system.

 

Sony will actually be bringing in a radio control set-up later this year that will fit under the present flash units line-up. Compatibility with other units unknown and features also not quite confirmed. If these work with the older line-up with an adapter, these can be very useful in building a comprehensive flash system. My hope is that it will be working with adapted lenses like their present system.

 

​In the short term, your best bet is the F43M as a controller ( again if you need light also coming from the on-camera flash) and either a F32M or any of the used models i mentioned above as remotes.

 

A lot of Sony flash compatibility info can be found here: http://mhohner.de/sony-minolta/flashcomp_setups.php#wireless

Scroll down, they show all camera / flash compatibility possibilities at the bottom. You will see film cameras first but your A6000 is somewhere down there.

There is also a lot of flash info on other pages of that site ( flash compendium) that may be useful.

 

 

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

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Thanks a lot for your help, i really appreciate it. 

 

Do you have an indication when the sony radio unit will be launched?

 

 

 

 

EDIT:

Just found out will be in the summer sometime.

 

I'll look to get the HVL-F43M and wait for the wireless (possibly getting another 43M later on)

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While summer is not that long to wait and see what materializes and how universal it is...the big question is "Do you NEED TTL or is it a luxury?"

 

I was in the same situation as you when I switched from Nikon to Sony, and most of my flash work was off camera with no trigger flash emitting light on camera. With Nikon, I used the Pocketwizard (TT5/TT1 and AC3 series) paired with Nikon branded flashes, rationalizing that is the Pocket Wizard went down, Nikon's native CLS was a backup (which I never had to use). Sure, that was a TTL system, but the irony was that manual was the same camera setting and just flip the switch on the PW. Most of the time I used manual rather than letting the camera decide and was really able to work the shadows and highlights.

 

Began using Sony and still was of the TTL mindset. Looked at Odin who was first to market and had the unfortunate timing to release their units as Sony changed the hotshoe. That is why you see the Odin with the Minolta shoe and the related Mitros flash units with the newer shoe. Why Phottix didn't update or offer both versions is beyond me as I had to repair by removal/replacement one of the PW shoes and it was a DIY project. The Sony version of the Odin was perpetually out of stock everywhere including Phottix web site which resolved the issue for me. Nissin Air was introduced but had concerns about the proprietary limitations as I already owned the HVL-F60M. After having the Odin on backorder for 3 months, I cancelled the order and went full manual, using the single HVL-F60M for fast acting events where TTL was necessary if flash was allowed at all. While events are about 5% of my work, most are much slower and allow the timing multiple flash setup. I saved a huge amount of money with Yongnuo 560-IV which had transceivers in them paired with the 560-TX camera mounted transmitter which, like the PW AC-3 which spoiled me, allowed at camera power adjustment rather than going from unit to unit to adjust power levels. Also got the RF-603N-II where could tie Nikon and Sony flashes into the system if needed additional, but had to manually adjust them at site rather than on camera, and as secondary, they were usually furthest from camera. Tired of that, and resolved for $65 by buying another 560-IV flash. Like I said earlier, they were inexpensive! It should be noted the Yongnuo doesn't make a Sony model and all of these were "Nikon" but it doesn't matter as manual is just the center pin that needs to make contact with the metal shoe attached to the camera providing the ground. Works with both the a7rII and a6000, however, on the a6000 had to sand the underside of the mount as paint overspray during manufacturing blocked the ground (well documented issue as resolved on google search).  

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Thanks agian for the help.

 

As i am new to photography, i am still learning a lot about things and have never used the flash (off or on - except the built in flashes) so it is a learning experience.

 

I am really trying to get as much features as possible working, as then i can revert to manual later once i know how things work - its going to be a long process.

 

Only downside of waiting till summer - there doesn't seem to be any sony prices listed yet.. so who knows how much the Sony radio transmitter will be..

 

here's a couple of photos i have taken with the A6000

https://500px.com/illusion-paul

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  • 3 weeks later...

First off, thank you @michelb as I have been trying to figure out TTL with non-native lenses and have read so many mixed accounts of it working/not working without the full details of when and how.

 

@Illusion-Paul : Like tizeye I've been using Yongnuo 560 III & VIs with the 560TX and 603II transceivers with my Sony cameras.  I've been dabbling with speedlights and location lighting.  I also have an Einstein/Vagabond mini that I trigger with a 603II as well.

 

I recently came across the updated Godox system - they have recently added in Sony MIS hotshoe TTL/HSS functionality in their X1 radio enabled series.  What was appealing to me was that all their other X1 products (speedlights, bare bulb flashes and newly announced studio strobe) are now simultaneously compatible with Sony, Nikon and Canon TTL/HSS in wireless.

 

This means that you can just buy the appropriate trigger for your camera brand or have one of their speedlights in your camera brand and use either unit to wirelessly control/trigger other X1 enabled units, regardless of the hotshoe variety.  If my needs change, I have a full line of lights to choose from and if I acquire a new camera system or shoot with a friend, I just need the appropriate wireless trigger ($45) for full wireless lighting control.  Even if cost was no object, there aren't many location/studio lighting systems that are TTL/HSS compatible with Sony at the moment.

 

I first thought I would just get a speedlight and wireless trigger to try TTL and HSS.  After some research, I opted for an AD360II as that would allow me to have something in terms of power and size between the Einstein and the speedlights I already have.  HSS may need a little more power in bright daylight anyways, so I welcomed getting a 300Ws unit.  Godox seems to have gotten through many of the growing pains of launching this product and I haven't had any of the issues of the early adopters that I read about online.  The units are solidly made and have worked great from the start.

 

As michelb stated, TTL doesn't work wirelessly with these systems if using non-native glass.  But with my Sony EF lens, TTL works just fine.  With non-native glass in TTL mode, the on-camera or on-trigger FEC works, so you can easily manipulate flash power like you would exposure compensation.  I only have one autofocus lens at the moment for Sony though haha.  TTL was more of a convenience/novelty feature for me.

 

HSS was something I really wanted though as ND filters can be cumbersome and I like my fast glass - being able to use them in bright daylight is really nice.  The new X1 enabled products enable HSS automatically the moment you use a shutter speed above flash sync.  It's really convenient.

 

I managed to get free fast shipping of a kit from Linkdelight.  I got the bare-bulb kit in less than a week.  Their kits were catered for Canon and Nikon but I emailed them to have them swap me a Canon version AD360II-C and a Sony version X1T-S trigger into the kit.  The kit made it very reasonable to get extra accessories included in the price.  Of course, if you are concerned with extended warranty, returns and service, you can pay a bit more for the re-branded units under the Flashpoint or Bolt brands from Adorama and BH.

 

Note: you won't likely find an AD360II with a Sony MIS interface shoe.  Godox replied to me that they were not making one as the predominantly plastic MIS shoe is more fragile than the ISO standard metal hot shoe.  The AD360II is quite large - I will never mount it on my mirrorless camera anyways, so that worked just fine for me.  It also comes with a conversion plate that allows you to swap the hot shoe out with a standard tripod connector.  The new Godox line can be firmware upgraded via USB - although it is a bit of a hassle - it's definitely not an Apple mobile device!  ;)

 

I'm not sold on waiting for Sony's flash products despite their compatibility with non-native lenses because from all the accounts I have read, Sony flashes disable features like HSS the moment you tilt the flash head.    I'm not really fond of direct flash and would only use it if at an event where I had no options to setup lighted areas with stands.

 
Also just my opinion - the third-party brands are also much better in terms of value & features (power output/flexibiltiy etc. & price)
 

Hope this helps.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I recently came across the updated Godox system - they have recently added in Sony MIS hotshoe TTL/HSS functionality in their X1 radio enabled series.  What was appealing to me was that all their other X1 products (speedlights, bare bulb flashes and newly announced studio strobe) are now simultaneously compatible with Sony, Nikon and Canon TTL/HSS in wireless.

 

Also just my opinion - the third-party brands are also much better in terms of value & features (power output/flexibiltiy etc. & price)
 

Hope this helps.

 

 

The godox system is very powerful. I have been using it since nearly 2 years on my canon now and love it. Honestly much happier than any Canon flash ever made me. I wrote a detailed feedback about the system on my blog

The  V860C-II just got announced and apparently also works with Sony - might pick one up although I use my a6300 mainly for video and not photo. In general I am not a fan of TTL so I don't care too much about it.

 

As you mentioned big downside is the service - getting spare parts is impossible so you would have to buy something new if it breaks, not too painful with those prices though. 

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If you're just getting into flash photography, you need to learn to use it before you invest in an expensive wireless system, because it may not be something you like. I would suggest doing some practice with the on-camera flash first to see how lighting can shape your image. It's not just a "pop-it-up-and-fire" flash like you might realize, but the head can be tilted up or back to get a different look. Switch to a portrait hold and bounce it off a wall, a piece of paper, through a glass, etc. Try a bunch of DIY things to see how you like the effect, then move to purchasing an inexpensive flash , not necessarily with any ttl or wireless capability (http://amzn.com/B004LEAYXY).

 

Practice the same with that flash and get the feel of a more powerful light source with manual controls. It has more options to use it, but it's also bulkier and uses it's own batteries, so invest in some good nimh rechargeables (AmazonBasics are good value for money, Fuji and Eneloops are better but more expensive). Once you've gotten the hang of that, you might get an off-camera hotshoe cord (http://amzn.com/B00NXEF870) and see how you can change the look of your shots with the added versitility of being able to hold your flash somewhere that isn't directly on the camera.

 

The next step is a little tricker, but totally doable with what you already have. Switch the flash into S2 (or SD) mode, which is optical slave digital mode. In this mode, you can put that flash anywhere you want, fire the on-camera flash from your a6000, and it will trigger it to fire. Keep in mind that the a6000 flash cannot fire in what is known as "commander mode", so it will add light to your shot. You can offset the fill from your on-camera flash by dialing down the flash exposure compensation as low as it will go, or deflecting it with a physical object, but the off-camera flash must still see it to fire. This effectively gives you the wireless capability you'd need to learn everything about off-camera flash you need before investing in the big boys.

 

If you need more points of light, buy another inexpensive flash and test out two, three, four light sources, and once you're feeling comfortable with how it all works, go for something more expensive. The most budget-conscious option for wireless flash is to simply get a trigger set for your already-existing flash units (http://amzn.com/B004YW79F4). Yongnuo also makes their YN-560 III that has a receiver built in, or the YN-560 IV that has both a transmitter and receiver in one. You can either trigger that set with the RF-602/RF-603/RF-605, or the standalone commander YN-560TX, which can also wirelessly control the output of the III and IV.

 

However, those all previously mentioned flashes, aside from a6000s on-camera flash, are manual only, so you have to learn to control the output to get the proper exposure. It's a good thing to learn how to properly meter for manual flashes as it gives you the most creative control over your images, but there are times where you want or need to use TTL, or auto flash. Sony's HVL-F20M is a relatively inexpensive TTL flash that's compact and versatile, although a bit oddly shaped and fairly low powered, or for a step up from that, Nissin's i40 which is compact and as an added bonus, has a video light and can receive a wireless trigger signal from a Sony flash. The Nissin is about twice the price as the Sony, but also quite a bit more powerful.

 

If you're looking to step up from there, I'm afraid I have no direct experience with anything other than the Nissin air system (Nissin Air Commander, Nissin di700a, Nissin Air Receiver) and the Godox ad360 (manual battery-powered studio flash). I can quote what other photographers have told me and things I have learned from classes and videos, but my personal experience ends there.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just bought the Godox TT685s & X1Ts combo off Amazon for <$180. They are TTL and HSS.

I have to say that TTL is luxury item, but, HSS is not. There are cheaper options, but the OP has stated that he "can use for the foreseeable future."

Flash actually on the hotshoe is usually not good. This solves this. There is actually some upgrade paths because Godox supports rebranded strobes from Cheetah and Interfit.

 

Sony flashes are very expensive. (This isn't a Sony thing, Canon and Nikon flashes aren't cheap either). I can't say I would buy a $400 flash to put on $500 body.

You are probably looking at a $800 solution with Sony and Godox is less than $200.

 

The only reason I would state that you might not want to get the TT685s as a starter flash is because Godox now makes the V860iis which has a Li-ion Battery for faster recycles.

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I have three flashes and each has a place.  I have the HVL-20, HVL-43, and Phottix Mitros + along with a separate Odin transmitter/receiver.  I love the HVL-20 for low cost, very light weight and adequate for fill light (the major need for most of us.  The HVL-20 is perfect for travel. Also, the HVL-20 will work as a trigger (but not receiver) in a multi flash set-up (off camera flash).

 

Next is the HVL-43 and the flash I use more than the others.  I love to use it for soft fill light with one of those cheap Sto-Fen plastic globes on top.  Great for soft fill light.  You can't even tell a flash has been used it is so subtile.  

 

The Phottix Mitros + is a real beauty, but probably more than most amateurs need.  It has a built-in Odin transmitter/receiver so it can act as act as the main controller or be used off-camera with a separate Odin transmitter.  It is fun (and sometimes frustrating) to get a multi flash set-up to function the way you want.  But that is part of the challenge.  You can use several flashes at different power levels to achieve different effects.

 

I recommend you go to YouTube and watch Gary Fong's free videos.  You can learn a lot from him.

 

Here is a photo using two off camera flashes (HVL-43 and Phottix Mitros +)  off camera with the Odin controller as a transmitter:

 

 

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