A7rII Super35 mode: for stills?

[Benedict Spence]

Hi All,

 

I am a cinematographer working in films and commercials... I'm looking for a camera which I can use for talking still on tech scouts. Normally I carry a combination of large cine lens, with a handheld viewfinder for it, plus stills on a Canon 5d; a fair bit of kit.

 

The A7Rii Super35 mode would be ideal for me to take stills with... I would have a camera with the exact crop and ideally able to keep the meta data for the lens, plus I wouldn't have to mess around trying to crop a full frame image to the correct size. All other camera options are not-quite Super35, which is not ideal when I need to be specific and critical with my framing.

 

So my question is this: is Super35 mode on the A7Rii only for video or does the camera allow you to take stills in that mode too?

 

I've dug all over the place on the internet and I couldn't find the answer!

 

Thank you!

 

Ben

 

 

[joema]

Yes Super35 mode works for stills. I think it is a straight crop to the same framing as in 4K video mode. I have not tested whether it's identical to a pixel level.

 

You theoretically could shoot a brief Super35 4K clip, where each frame is an 8 megapixel still. However there is no known way to extract aperture/ISO from the video EXIF data for this camera. Even the command-line ExifTool doesn't work. I have asked the author of ExifTool to enhance it for this camera, but no response so far.

 

If you need metadata it's best to  shoot a Super35 still, as you described.

 

We use the Sony 28-135 f/4 cinema lens which enables smooth motorized zooms, has clickless aperture, and allows quick switching between manual and auto focus.

[lenoindex]

Super35 mode for 7r2 uses 18megapixel of the entire 42 (still) 

[Benedict Spence]

Great thanks guys for your input... I would want it for stills only so great to hear that you can shoot Super35 mode for stills. The MP count doesn't matter as the stills would be for prep use only.

 

For me the most important thing is that the crop that you get in Super35 mode is the same as a Super35 sensor, 24.9mm x 18.66 (or 14mm with a 16:9 crop). If I go on a scout and take a shot at 18mm on the A7Rii I would need that to be exaclty the same when I return with an Arri Alexa for the shoot (for example).

 

Another questions for the hive mind: does anyone know the exact measurement of the sensor that the A7Rii uses in Super35 mode?

 

Annoyingly APS-C is around 10% different to Super35, which frustratingly is enough to make a big difference in accuracy....

 

Thank you again!

 

Ben

[Guest Peter Kelly]

I seem to recall that this works differently between the two, even if the format and framing are identical. It's to do with how the sensor is read, but I might be wrong so don't take my word for it.

 

Certainly, as regards stills, this is one of those tools that looks to provide something else, but doesn't; much like digital zoom. You can certainly record just using the central 18MP, but then the framing is fixed.

Indeed, I think you'd be much better using the full shot and then running the result through something like Lightroom where you can impose a very precise cropping to match anything.

Then you could select the precise composition you need, even if you weren't spot on with your framing!

 

The other alternative is simply to shoot very short Super 35 bursts and pick a frame. Then you can be certain of parity.

 

Of course, whatever you do you will need to bear in mind what lens you will be using (and the APS-C indicator lines in the Sony EVF might help here), but you will ultimately be exploring perspective and for that position is everything, not format or lens.

[lenoindex]

I seem to recall that this works differently between the two, even if the format and framing are identical. It's to do with how the sensor is read, but I might be wrong so don't take my word for it.

 

Certainly, as regards stills, this is one of those tools that looks to provide something else, but doesn't; much like digital zoom. You can certainly record just using the central 18MP, but then the framing is fixed.

Indeed, I think you'd be much better using the full shot and then running the result through something like Lightroom where you can impose a very precise cropping to match anything.

Then you could select the precise composition you need, even if you weren't spot on with your framing!

 

The other alternative is simply to shoot very short Super 35 bursts and pick a frame. Then you can be certain of parity.

 

Of course, whatever you do you will need to bear in mind what lens you will be using (and the APS-C indicator lines in the Sony EVF might help here), but you will ultimately be exploring perspective and for that position is everything, not format or lens.

Op said hes too lazy to crop every single shot,

 

But I agree, I'd rather to use the full sensor then crop in PS with whatever aspect ratio you want (you only need to calculate the pixel by pixel one time and copy paste for future),

 

and you get the ability to re-compose - although from my understanding op doesn't want to re-compose, he wants an exact centered frame - still can be easily done..

 

And if I remember correctly, Capture one has an automatic crop or resize function or something like that..maybe take a look..

[Guest Peter Kelly]

As I mentioned, the only important factor here is perspective, which is relative to position.

All the framing, whether for the first shot, cropped in post-processing, or when the later camera is set up is infinitely variable.

 

For a general idea, set the precise pixel ratio and batch process. All you need to do then is keep in mind focal length.

 

That said, I'm curious as to the stressing of the format being 'identical' because even if you used, for example, a 55mm on the Sony Super 35, there is no guarantee that a 55mm on an Arri would be precisely the same.

There is often a measurable difference between what number is stamped on the side, what the focal length actually is, as well as the field of view obtained by each lens.

[Benedict Spence]

Hey gents...

 

Thank you for taking time to reply; I appreciate a good forum community spending time answering newbie questions!

 

So yes Peter, you're totally correct, there is some difference in Super35 sensors. 3 or 4% I can take, but the 10-12% difference between APS-C and Super35, I can't.

 

It's not that I'm too lazy to crop; it's more that when I finish a tech scout I need to get images over asap, and as accurately as possible, to director/producer. Ideally just handing over an SD card. Probably more important than that is the use of the camera as a dedicated viewfinder during my techincal scouts/reccee:

 

For example yesterday I was scouting a location in the alps. I have a cinema zoom (17-120mm) attached to a finder, which shows 1 person at a time what a super35 camera will see with a given focal length. I then also take a photos using the Artemis Ap on my iphone. Plus a photo on a 5d, with a guess at the correct focal length.

 

If the Super35 mode on the A7Rii works correctly, I could bring that and an 18-200mm zoom along, which would cover most of the lenses I use.  I could show my director and producer the shot, via the LCD screen, during the scout (rather than taking turns individually on the viewfinder). Take a photo with the correct lens and FOV (as per the Super35 sensor camera which we will have on the shoot day).

 

At the end of the day I can quickly and easily email those photos (with metadata telling me the exact focal length) rather than messing around with either trying to approximate the correct crop from a 5d or messing around with the painfully slow artemis ap on my iphone.

 

I think the only way to resolve this is to try and get a demo unit! I don't particularly want to spend £2500 on a stills camera for this, as I understand I am not using it's full capabilities, but it's way less than the £20,000 lens/finder combo I currently use and could be, practically, far superior. 

 

Accuracy and speed of use are paramount though....

 

Ben

[Guest Peter Kelly]

That's a totally different discipline to anything I'm used to, so thanks for the heads up, Ben!

I suspect I'd be giving the director/producer a rather more biological shot of their own 'orifice' to ponder after a while, if they're that fussy and impatient, but that's just me!

 

If I was in your position I think I'd look at hiring an A7Rii, rather than buying. It sounds like your use for it may be quite intermittent, so hiring would be a lot cheaper.

Of course, even if you will have a continuous need, hiring first would let you find out if it serves your purpose.

[adwb]

You can also AFIK hook up a hdm remote screen for the director to look at at the same time so when he says "like it" you hit the button,

Also not mentioned is that again AFIK if you shoot in 4k that level allows individual frame copy as stills if that is of interest.

[Benedict Spence]

Cheers again... I'm defo the one who is impatient and fussy, rather than my directors!

 

With a tech scout it's vital to plan exactly what you're going to do and how you're going to do it; a film shoot set can easily run into £10,000's per hour so making sure you have exactly the correct lenses, camera position and framing before you get to set on the shoot is vital. Also I am too lazy to go in and crop every still; I'd much rather is came out perfectly baked.

 

External monitor is a good idea, but overall the plan is to have less kit on these technical scouts.

 

I'll see if I can get a loaner from a sales person and give it a whirl... probably the best bet overall. It is something I need very regularly (2x per week perhaps) so absolutely worth it's cost if it works perfectly.

 

Thank you all again... You absolutely answered my original question!

 

Ben

[Berek]

Whilst the menu says aps-c/super35 they aren't the same thing size wise. The difference between the 2 is aspect ratio. A quick test against a fence about 1.5m away shows the horizontal dimension is about the same, the vertical is shorter in super35 (4k movie) mode. It's hard to tell accurately but the same with a fence about 8m away. When you swap (with the mode dial) between picture and movie mode the 4k movie mode shows less fence vertically.

 

Your homework is to find the dimensions of the picture crop mode and 4k movie mode as a ratio and it will tell you how much different it is.

[lenoindex]

When aps-c/super35 is turn on (not auto).

 

Stills give you APS-C crops.

 

Movies give you super35

 

On auto -

 

Stills - FF

 

Movies Super35

 

Off

Both stills and movies will be FF.

[bvartak]

Hi All,

 

I am a cinematographer working in films and commercials... I'm looking for a camera which I can use for talking still on tech scouts. Normally I carry a combination of large cine lens, with a handheld viewfinder for it, plus stills on a Canon 5d; a fair bit of kit.

 

The A7Rii Super35 mode would be ideal for me to take stills with... I would have a camera with the exact crop and ideally able to keep the meta data for the lens, plus I wouldn't have to mess around trying to crop a full frame image to the correct size. All other camera options are not-quite Super35, which is not ideal when I need to be specific and critical with my framing.

 

So my question is this: is Super35 mode on the A7Rii only for video or does the camera allow you to take stills in that mode too?

 

I've dug all over the place on the internet and I couldn't find the answer!

 

Thank you!

 

Ben

As far as I know this camera allow us to convert the image mode to Crop mode which is APSC mode even when I am using lens made for full frame.

 

Also, I have two lenses for APSC Zeiss Touit 12MM F2.8 and Touit 32MM F1.8; I set A7Rii on automatic mode to adjust lenses, so it goes on APSC mode when I mount both lenses. Some Professional Photographer do this to save disk space also we get a optical zoom when we put camera on such mode. This in turn also save time to crop image manually in post processing. A7Rii also allows us to set sensor mode to APSC manually and thus camera remains in set mode till we reset back to full frame.

[lenoindex]

As far as I know this camera allow us to convert the image mode to Crop mode which is APSC mode even when I am using lens made for full frame.

 

Also, I have two lenses for APSC Zeiss Touit 12MM F2.8 and Touit 32MM F1.8; I set A7Rii on automatic mode to adjust lenses, so it goes on APSC mode when I mount both lenses. Some Professional Photographer do this to save disk space also we get a optical zoom when we put camera on such mode. This in turn also save time to crop image manually in post processing. A7Rii also allows us to set sensor mode to APSC manually and thus camera remains in set mode till we reset back to full frame.

What you described is electronical zoom. And also you need to read the thread bit more carefully as this is not what OP was asking really..