Banding/Posterization Issues with A7ii

[bryanscott]

Picked up an A7ii back in November and am only now getting around to editing the first few days worth of shooting I did with it. To my horror, I discovered some pretty bad banding/posterization effects.

 

Here's a night shot: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bryanscott/24197544876

And a day shot: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bryanscott/23576052584

 

Seeing this banding was like stepping into a time machine back to my early digital days before I understood the benefits of RAW files.

 

Now, these were taken with the camera before I updated to the new firmware, so the RAW files were of the old-school compressed variety. I have not yet examined my shots taken after I updated the firmware.

 

Can anyone comment on the improvement (or lack thereof) they've seen in image quality since the firmware update? In particular, I'd like to know how the update has effected these banding issues.

[Guest Colin Scott Johnson]

How much pushing of the shadows were involved and did you have noise reduction turned off in the camera as well as all in-camera corrections?

 

I've had this onion ring banding before from my A7 II RAW files and found I could get rid of it completely by more careful editing and by using Topaz DeNoize, which has banding removal controls.

The key with the A7 II is not to shoot it above 3200 ISO and try not to push shadows too much (or mess with blacks in Lightroom) to avoid this.

 

HTH

[bryanscott]

The night shot was shot at ISO 400 and deliberately underexposed so as to not burn out the bright parts of the image (especially the neon sign). So yes, the RAW file was pushed quite a bit. No in-camera corrections were used (I believe).

 

If what you're saying is true about the camera's inability to have its RAW files pushed in processing, I fear I've made a huge mistake. (Keep in mind I have not yet played around with any of the 14-bit files.)

 

I'm coming from a Pentax background. Close to 20 years with the brand, and around 10 with their various DSLRs. Literally the last time I experienced posterization that bad was when I was shooting jpegs with my (now ancient) Pentax K10.

[Lescatalpas]

Bryan, I am coming from Pentax as well,(K5) and find the inability to shoot higher iso's also an issue. Compared to the k5 it is plain bad. I shoot no higher than iso 160 with my a7II, as with higher iso I am seeing noise that I did not have at iso1600 with the k5. Also a Sony sensor in the k5!. The uncompressed raws don't change the noise issue. Having said all that, at low iso's the picture quality (with the zeiss 55 f/1.8) is excellent.

[uriahocean]

Interesting

 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[bryanscott]

In looking at my camera settings, I see that I had all the options set to auto in the Lens Com. section (Shading Comp., Chro. Aber. Comp., and Distortion Comp.). Might this be a contributing factor?

 

I want to draw a clear distinction between noise and banding/posterization. I find the noise that the A7ii produces to be more than acceptable. In fact, I find it quite pleasant, even at high ISOs. I think I'd be quite pleased with large format prints, even at ISOs of 3200 (I will test this out one of these days). To reiterate, my concern is not with the noise—it's with the banding/posterization. Other than that, I find pretty much everything about this camera to be a complete joy. The image quality, overall, I find stunning.

 

I will update this thread when I've had a sufficient time to shoot and process 14-bit images.

[Lescatalpas]

I think if you underexpose and compensate in for instance lightroom, you get banding with most cameras, depending on the degree you compensate for.  There are various youtube videos out there promoting overexposing to avoid banding (and noise as well.)  I am also very happy with my a7II, but not impressed by it's high iso performance. I have all the lens comps set to off.  Also high iso and long exposure noise reduction are off, as I feel that the camera overcompensates and generally does a very poor job at in camera noise reduction. This may also contribute to the banding/ posterisation you are experiencing.

[bryanscott]

The daytime shot in my original post also shows banding. So this has nothing to do with underexposing and then pushing the RAW file, as was the case with the night shot.

 

Comparing the A7ii to my former Pentax cameras, when shooting high contrast scenes (with bright highlights and dark shadows), I always underexposed to avoid burning out the highlights. I did this with the K3, K5, K7 and K10. Banding was never an issue, except when shooting jpeg.

 

I'm not ready to declare the A7ii as a failure, as I have not yet fully experimented with it, but this issue is a huge concern to me. And I should add that I am not a pixel peeper. I know that no camera produces absolutely flawless images. Shooting where I live though, in the prairies, with the big wide-open skies, I fear the banding will be a common problem.

[Soenryu]

The daytime shot in my original post also shows banding. So this has nothing to do with underexposing and then pushing the RAW file, as was the case with the night shot.

 

Comparing the A7ii to my former Pentax cameras, when shooting high contrast scenes (with bright highlights and dark shadows), I always underexposed to avoid burning out the highlights. I did this with the K3, K5, K7 and K10. Banding was never an issue, except when shooting jpeg.

 

I'm not ready to declare the A7ii as a failure, as I have not yet fully experimented with it, but this issue is a huge concern to me. And I should add that I am not a pixel peeper. I know that no camera produces absolutely flawless images. Shooting where I live though, in the prairies, with the big wide-open skies, I fear the banding will be a common problem.

 

I had bad banding in the sky only in Lightroom. When I switched to Capture One, all of the problems disappeared.

[Guest Colin Scott Johnson]

@bryanscott

 

I think you answered your own question

The Sony's handle pulling highlights much better than pushing shadows.

 

FWIW, if you expose to the right with your A7 II and pull back, you can recover what would appear to be blown highlights quite easily.

Remember, there are three color channels, so you only need information in one of them (unlike a Leica Monochrom that I used to own, which if it was blown it was gone).

 

Yes, you should turn off all camera lens correction and noise reduction and invest in a copy of Nik Define or Topaz DeNoize (or both).

 

HTH

[brettfrey]

I went crazy about this issue when I got my A7s and thought something was wrong with the camera. I shot low ISO, well exposed Raw files and was processing with Adobe Lightroom 6. The problem, I discovered was not with Sony but with Lightroom. Lightroom processing has been brilliant with Nikon D3 and Canon 5D mkII, but vastly misses on Sony Raw. It's like a really bad guess. I tried many fixes and nothing works better than Capture One. No more banding, smooth skin tones, outstanding color. I wonder how Adobe can get this so wrong. Currently, only use Lightroom for non-Sony cameras.

[blackfeather]

I too dislike lightroom for processing....I use Capture as well....it puts LR to shame.

[TONY KNAPTON]

MY BANDING ISSUE ON THE SONY A7 MK2 IS CAUSED BY THE SHARPENING TOOL ON PHOTOSHOP ELEMENTS 13

I CROPPED THE IMAGE, NO PROBS, THEN SHARPENED IT WITH AUTO SHARPEN, THEN I HAD HUGE BAND

IN BRIGHT BLUE SKY, PROBLEM SOLVED

MY MAIN ISSUE IS WITH THE AUTO FOCUS, SO HIT AND MISS

CAN ANYONE GIVE ME THE BEST SETTING FOR THIS

THANKS

TONY K