Jump to content

The Pro Macro setup?


AntDX316
 Share

Recommended Posts

The automated pro rapid deployment amywhere macro setup?

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a huge amount of gear to cart around for on-site macro, so I think they most likely will be kept at home for a macro studio set up.  You should get a light tent for a more diffused, even lighting rather than using that LED/LCD lamp.  With a sophisticated macro set-up, shouldn't you be looking beyond 1:1 magnification of your current macro lens?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
On 8/13/2022 at 11:37 PM, tadwil said:

That's a huge amount of gear to cart around for on-site macro, so I think they most likely will be kept at home for a macro studio set up.  You should get a light tent for a more diffused, even lighting rather than using that LED/LCD lamp.  With a sophisticated macro set-up, shouldn't you be looking beyond 1:1 magnification of your current macro lens?

What light tent is good? It's the A7R4 and I was taking it at 15MP at I think 100 or 500 micron at f/2.8. I did not try 61MP on the A7R4 RAW yet. It was around 360 photos. I took another with 760+ photos earlier but it came out the same. I need to probably try at 1000 micron or less for the sake of less photos. The bug wasn't very big. I should've measured. I had it on 1:1 from the beginning of the front leg to the last part of the furthest leg tip.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

The setup wasn't too sophisticated. The gear was for other things then upgraded. I use the bigger one carbon one as a video tripod for the 200-600mm. I just added a tray to the other tripod. The light was a Lumecube Panel I had bought way back for other purposes. The table that the battery and the controller is on is actually a lap table or to raise the height of the laptop or items on top of a less height table such as using a furniture piece in a lobby as a table. The battery was to recharge stuff while I am outside. All I had to do was pretty much buy the tray and the macro rail system that someone in The Netherlands made on ebay. : ) The struggle of DIY can be so bad that when I finally end up with what I want, I've spent like 5x the intended budget and it kind of works. This works perfectly for $300 shipped but I did have to change the camera mount.

The bug was dead for days on the floor so might as well use it for picture taking. The photo was just stacked in Zerene Stacker with 15MP JPGs with no edit.

Either I put the macro rail on a smaller tripod and try to take photos of things on the floor or find the right box height, or I find a table to raise the item to be as high as the tripod so I just control that instead of being all the way on the ground trying to adjust and tweak everything.

Edited by AntDX316
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 8/11/2022 at 3:57 PM, AntDX316 said:

The automated pro rapid deployment amywhere macro setup?

I am just saying there are too much equipment to cart around to go anywhere with them and you have proven my point saying that you are going to bring the bugs to this macro set up rather than going to where the bugs are.

Google for light tent and you will see many do-it-yourself options out there and you just need to get some lights for it.  You should make it as large as you can to fit in your space because it's easier to set things up in them and the light diffuses better.  Also with a larger light box/tent you can try doing some product photography incorporating your stacking hardware as well as macro.

With your set up, you can go beyond 1:1 macro.  Easiest and the cheapest option, get a set of extension tubes and put it between your camera and your macro lens and if you add a Raynox DCR xxx, you can get even closer.  Laowa makes some really great macro lenses with 2:1 macro capability and other lenses with higher magnification.

Finally, you should be a little more selective about the dead bugs you select as your subject.  Missing body parts and cracks in the chitin detract from the finished image.  You might try getting some entomology specimens available on Amazon if you can't find dead insect specimen in good condition.

All in all, you have put together a quite the impressive macro set up and I look forward to seeing many stacked image from you.

Thanks,

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

On 8/16/2022 at 12:53 AM, AntDX316 said:

I don't think I'm going to collect and bring bugs home. I'm just going to find bugs when I go out and put them on the tray to take photos of.

Maybe you should check out some bug books.  In the wild, it's very hard to photograph most bugs.  They move, hop, and fly.  If you capture them, put them in a jar in the fridge for 1/2 hour, they stop moving -- easy to photograph.  You can leave all the gear at home.  Let them go when you are done.

Edited by XKAES
Link to post
Share on other sites

Insects on site provide far better photos in my opinion 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Much depends on the magnification you want to achieve.  In the field, you're lucky if you can get anywhere close to 1:1.  If you want 10X, the field is not an option.

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Taegha said:

Insects on site provide far better photos in my opinion 

Live specimen doing what they are supposed to do out in the field has context and is much more interesting but how many stacked shot can you take before the insect changes position or moves away.  The OP is taking hundreds of shots and stacking them together to create a portrait of the insect that is far more detailed than anything that can be obtained out in the field.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Another 1 shot.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited by AntDX316
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 8/16/2022 at 2:01 PM, tadwil said:

I am just saying there are too much equipment to cart around to go anywhere with them and you have proven my point saying that you are going to bring the bugs to this macro set up rather than going to where the bugs are.

Google for light tent and you will see many do-it-yourself options out there and you just need to get some lights for it.  You should make it as large as you can to fit in your space because it's easier to set things up in them and the light diffuses better.  Also with a larger light box/tent you can try doing some product photography incorporating your stacking hardware as well as macro.

With your set up, you can go beyond 1:1 macro.  Easiest and the cheapest option, get a set of extension tubes and put it between your camera and your macro lens and if you add a Raynox DCR xxx, you can get even closer.  Laowa makes some really great macro lenses with 2:1 macro capability and other lenses with higher magnification.

Finally, you should be a little more selective about the dead bugs you select as your subject.  Missing body parts and cracks in the chitin detract from the finished image.  You might try getting some entomology specimens available on Amazon if you can't find dead insect specimen in good condition.

All in all, you have put together a quite the impressive macro set up and I look forward to seeing many stacked image from you.

Thanks,

 

I have a 90mm Micro G which would be kind of useless. How can attach microscope lenses to the A7R4?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Microscope lenses have an RMS (Royal Microscope Society) thread.  Get an RMS adapter.  This might require TWO adapters, such as an RMS to Leica (or Minolta, etc.) adapter, and then a Leica (or Minolta, etc.) to Sony (a- or e-mount) adapter.  If you are lucky, someone makes an RMS to Sony adapter.

Edited by XKAES
Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, XKAES said:

Microscope lenses have an RMS (Royal Microscope Society) thread.  Get an RMS adapter.  This might require TWO adapters, such as an RMS to Leica (or Minolta, etc.) adapter, and then a Leica (or Minolta, etc.) to Sony (a- or e-mount) adapter.  If you are lucky, someone makes an RMS to Sony adapter.

What RMS scope do you recommend for great quality? What x:1 is best at an affordable cost without going too high and the quality going to crap like 20:1 for $100 being bad (have to spend like $10k to get exceptional quality) versus say 4:1 costing $100 with exceptional quality (without having to spend say $10k)?

With thr A7R4 at 61MP can that be considered 4:1 when cropping? Also the ability to do 240MP can make it even like 16:1? I've tested it way back and the quality when cropping at 240MP is indeed 4x better than the 60MP.

Edited by AntDX316
Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, XKAES said:

Microscope lenses have an RMS (Royal Microscope Society) thread.  Get an RMS adapter.  This might require TWO adapters, such as an RMS to Leica (or Minolta, etc.) adapter, and then a Leica (or Minolta, etc.) to Sony (a- or e-mount) adapter.  If you are lucky, someone makes an RMS to Sony adapter.

Which mount too? I assume the far one would have less quality as the light distance is further or is it better? I have no idea.

It cost less so I assume there might be a metal shavings problem later as the metal might be softer?

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited by AntDX316
Link to post
Share on other sites

One adapter is from China, one from Belarus.  That alone can explain the difference in price.  The one from China has a longer cone, but extension has nothing to do with image quality.  As to microscope lenses, that's as complex as regular camera lenses.  The micro lenses I use are the 25mm and 12.5mm Minolta Micro Bellows lenses (RMS) and a Tominon 17mm (Copal #1), but I doubt you would be interested in any of them.  I also have a magnifier that I can use at the top of the "microscope", but I don't recall the name (Edmund Scientific?) or the magnification (10x?)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, XKAES said:

One adapter is from China, one from Belarus.  That alone can explain the difference in price.  The one from China has a longer cone, but extension has nothing to do with image quality.  As to microscope lenses, that's as complex as regular camera lenses.  The micro lenses I use are the 25mm and 12.5mm Minolta Micro Bellows lenses (RMS) and a Tominon 17mm (Copal #1), but I doubt you would be interested in any of them.  I also have a magnifier that I can use at the top of the "microscope", but I don't recall the name (Edmund Scientific?) or the magnification (10x?)

so you have a lot of experience with other microscope lenses I assume? I'm not sure what the 25mm 12.5mm 17mm etc. lenses do.. I'm not sure what you are supposed to take with mm like that in microscope form? 25mm microscope must be different than 25mm full-frame?

Could I have better quality using the A7R4 with the 90mm G than getting a micro lens?

 

Carl zeiss jena semiplan 6.3/0.16 160 is the scope he is using for these results:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPe8VQ__qM8

 

It seems my setup won't work and I need his setup but if I just use the A7R4 with Pixel Shifting on the 90mm Macro G I can get the same results?

Edited by AntDX316
Link to post
Share on other sites

Microscope lenses are normally rated by magnification instead of focal length -- because magnification is what's most important -- same with binoculars.  Telescopes, on the other extreme, are usually rated by their aperture -- because that's what's most important.  But they all have focal lengths, and because I'm a photographer, I think in focal lengths, not apertures or magnification.

Your 90mm lens is designed to produce it's best results probably around 1X.  My Minolta 12.5mm lens is designed to produce its best results around 25X. 

You can either create enough extension for your 90mm lens to create 25X, or crop the 1X image to produce a 25X equivalent, but you are fooling yourself if you think the results will be as good as those produced by a lens designed to produce a 25X image.

Link to post
Share on other sites

On 8/17/2022 at 9:51 PM, AntDX316 said:

I have a 90mm Micro G which would be kind of useless. How can attach microscope lenses to the A7R4?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1399601-REG/venus_optics_ve2528c_laowa_25mm_f_2_8_2_5_5x.html

https://www.cameralabs.com/laowa-25mm-f2-8-2-5-5x-ultra-macro-review/

You don't need to jump into extreme macro photography all at once.  You can try using extension tubes and achromat filters on your 90mm lens to go beyond 1:1 magnification very easily.  Or you might invest in a Laowa 2.5-5.0x macro lens (1st link) and read the review in the link below, there is even a depth of field chart for the laowa 2.5-5.0x lens in the review.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I got this. I can do white instead of black. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Link to post
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, XKAES said:

Microscope lenses are normally rated by magnification instead of focal length -- because magnification is what's most important -- same with binoculars.  Telescopes, on the other extreme, are usually rated by their aperture -- because that's what's most important.  But they all have focal lengths, and because I'm a photographer, I think in focal lengths, not apertures or magnification.

Your 90mm lens is designed to produce it's best results probably around 1X.  My Minolta 12.5mm lens is designed to produce its best results around 25X. 

You can either create enough extension for your 90mm lens to create 25X, or crop the 1X image to produce a 25X equivalent, but you are fooling yourself if you think the results will be as good as those produced by a lens designed to produce a 25X image.

What is 25x? 25:1?

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, tadwil said:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1399601-REG/venus_optics_ve2528c_laowa_25mm_f_2_8_2_5_5x.html

https://www.cameralabs.com/laowa-25mm-f2-8-2-5-5x-ultra-macro-review/

You don't need to jump into extreme macro photography all at once.  You can try using extension tubes and achromat filters on your 90mm lens to go beyond 1:1 magnification very easily.  Or you might invest in a Laowa 2.5-5.0x macro lens (1st link) and read the review in the link below, there is even a depth of field chart for the laowa 2.5-5.0x lens in the review.

achromat filters will ruin the quality, I will try the 240MP stacking soon

Link to post
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, AntDX316 said:

What is 25x? 25:1?

 

Yes 25X is 25:1.  With your 90mm lens you'll need about four feet of extension tubes to get there.

And while you are studying macro-photography nomenclature, you should also study achromatic and apochromatic supplementary lenses -- they are quite useful.

Edited by XKAES
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...