Problem with A7R4 and deep colors. *Help please*

[AntDX316]

Ok, the one with the Smart looking white is A7R4.  I've tried JPG AdobeRGB and sRGB, same results.  I've tried many color presets and changing WB, same results.  I've tried changing the contrast and such, same results.  I've tried -3 EV and 0 EV, same results.

In real-life, the red of Pet and blue of Smart is SO DEEP and nice I wanted to capture it.  On the Note20 Ultra, the colors are so much better but on the A7R4, it's not at all.  In real-life, the colors are far far deeper than the Note20.  How do I bring the colors out?  I want ultra deep vibrant blue and red.  Can someone please help?

The Note20 Ultra image is untouched, the A7R4 was shot in RAW and had to be edited otherwise the Smart looks white.

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Edited October 25, 2020 by AntDX316

[LiveShots]

What metering mode were you using, if using the whole screen then it might over expose to pick up the building, so it washes out the sign.

https://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/1930/v1/en/contents/TP0002720658.html?search=Highlight

Did you try using the Highlight mode ?

Did you have HDR on or off?

[AntDX316]

56 minutes ago, LiveShots said:

What metering mode were you using, if using the whole screen then it might over expose to pick up the building, so it washes out the sign.

https://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/1930/v1/en/contents/TP0002720658.html?search=Highlight

Did you try using the Highlight mode ?

Did you have HDR on or off?

DRO was set to Auto but it doesn't matter if you are on RAW.  The metering mode doesn't matter much as I was setting EV myself.

How do you bring the colors to a solid deep red and solid deep blue?

Should've I gone way deeper on negative EV and did like an AEB as the blue and red were backlit?

I wasn't shooting entirely on full manual.  It was Aperture priority w/ ISO to Auto.

Edited October 25, 2020 by AntDX316

[LiveShots]

I imagine these lights are fluorescent, but that would only cause a problem if using the electronic shutter. Maybe a slower shutter speed to eliminate the flicker of the lights ?

i’m a little stumped to be honest

 

[AntDX316]

Just now, LiveShots said:

I imagine these lights are fluorescent, but that would only cause a problem if using the electronic shutter. Maybe a slower shutter speed to eliminate the flicker of the lights ?

i’m a little stumped to be honest

 

I think you are supposed to AEB the image??

[LiveShots]

Not sure, i don’t use bracketing much. I would have thought the camera should be able to do this sort of shot without too much post-processing. 

 

[AntDX316]

1 minute ago, LiveShots said:

Not sure, i don’t use bracketing much. I would have thought the camera should be able to do this sort of shot without too much post-processing. 

 

I know but the lettering was so lit and deep in color that no doubt it would make the A7R4 not take it as intended?

[AntDX316]

The one w/ the more details is from the Note20, unedited.  The A7R4 one is unedited just cropped.  Sigma 50mm f/1.4 on the photos from the PetSmart and this.  I took the Note20 images in Night mode at 10x zoom.

See how the orange basketball is washed out.  I need this fixed.

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Edited October 25, 2020 by AntDX316

[LiveShots]

The top one is much warmer, so the White Balance setting is different on the two images. Have you tried changing the WB in post-processing to see if you can find a setting that gets you close to the phone camera?

[AntDX316]

36 minutes ago, LiveShots said:

The top one is much warmer, so the White Balance setting is different on the two images. Have you tried changing the WB in post-processing to see if you can find a setting that gets you close to the phone camera?

I was trying every combination possible to get the red and blues out but I think I had to go insanely deeper on the EV.

[AntDX316]

1 hour ago, LiveShots said:

Not sure, i don’t use bracketing much. I would have thought the camera should be able to do this sort of shot without too much post-processing. 

 

Try taking some backlit super bright lights w/ deep color and see what happens.

Edited October 25, 2020 by AntDX316

[felipe]

Hola,lo ideal seria disparar dos camaras identicas y luego comparar,salu2 de Felipe ?

[AntDX316]

So no one knows what to do?

[LiveShots]

Can you post the RAW files somewhere?

[AntDX316]

1 hour ago, LiveShots said:

Can you post the RAW files somewhere?

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1jacsBSzWMjPCV56xS3MYPzsCb0WIDyRQ?usp=sharing

[LiveShots]

I cropped the images a little. The images are very under-exposed, so there is little room for improvement.

Spot metering was used with no Exposure Compensation on the two images below

I adjust the Highlights all the way down to -100 to get the colors to begin to show.

I can't see from EXIF if DRO was used, it does affect the RAW files and gives more latitude to widely varying lighting conditions

This is from first image screen shot from CaptureOne settings:

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This screenshot shows CaptureOne settings for the following image. I had to adjust color on the basketball as the highlights were blown out.  

 I am certain that others could probably edit these much better but this should give you a starting point

My recommendation when taking shots like this is :

1. Turn on DRO,  as mentioned above it DOES affect RAW files and gives more latitude on color correction etc.

2. Use AEL , focus on an area that is mid-lighting and toggle AEL this may help to give a median baseline for lighting, then recompose, focus and take the shot.

[LiveShots]

Here's another way of editing, just changing Exposure Brightness and Shadow

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[AntDX316]

Believe it or not, the colors are a lot deeper in blue, like Way deeper in blue and bright.  The red looks like that in real-life though but maybe a bit deeper.  How far can you go on the color deepneess?  Is Sonys color science not so good which is why it can't go deep?

[LiveShots]

Colors can only go as far as recorded. With spot metering being used it will try to balance the exposure in the center of the frame which is where the light is.

Try mounting the camera on a tripod, and take a picture with bracketing turned on for EACH of the various metering modes, save images as RAW + JPG

Then do the same with DRO turned on, and go through them all to see which JPG is closer to reality. Then use a good photo editor to fine-tune the RAW version of that image.

On the last example I did not adjust the saturation, so there may be some more color that could be brought out.

 

[Chrissie]

Have you read Sony's advice on the usage of different "color spaces"?

Quote

NOTE: Low saturation images result from outputting images recorded in Adobe RGB to a TV or monitor or from printing with a printer not compatible with the Adobe RGB standard (DCF2.0/Exif2.21). If you do not have software or hardware compatible with the Adobe RGB standard, you should record in sRGB.

Capture One has a matching opinion to this:

Quote

For Web
Images that are intended to be published on web sites should always be processed into the sRGB color space as few web-browsers are capable of color management and the subtleties of images will not only be lost but can also be incorrectly displayed. Images processed in larger color spaces like Adobe RGB will be displayed with less color (especially green) and those are often slightly too dark when shown in browsers that support only sRGB.

 

[AntDX316]

2 hours ago, LiveShots said:

Colors can only go as far as recorded. With spot metering being used it will try to balance the exposure in the center of the frame which is where the light is.

Try mounting the camera on a tripod, and take a picture with bracketing turned on for EACH of the various metering modes, save images as RAW + JPG

Then do the same with DRO turned on, and go through them all to see which JPG is closer to reality. Then use a good photo editor to fine-tune the RAW version of that image.

On the last example I did not adjust the saturation, so there may be some more color that could be brought out.

 

yeah, that's what I was saying before.  Probably need to AEB

[AntDX316]

20 minutes ago, Chrissie said:

Have you read Sony's advice on the usage of different "color spaces"?

Capture One has a matching opinion to this:

 

I have both an AdobeRGB jpg and an sRGB jpg if you want those too.

[AntDX316]

It's actually the jpgs on the folder.

If you don't shoot at the proper exposure it will be considered a blownout highlight in the camera!