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A7Riii banding

a7riii electronic shutter banding

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#1 Gdavison4

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 02:36 AM

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Sony A7Riii Banding: the banding problem is nothing new. Since the A9 came out, using the electronic shutter with LEDs in the photo leads to banding. Here's my experience with the A7Riii and banding. I was trying to get some sweet bokeh from the Christmas tree lights. 

 

banding1.jpg banding1.jpg

 

 

 

I turned off the silent shooting and everything worked well...until something else happened. I don't even know what to call it. I could see the black band/shutter(?) move across the EVF. 

 

shutter1.jpg shutter2.jpg shutter3.jpg

 

Does anyone know what this is? Again, these were taken with mechanical shutter. 

Attached Images

  • banding2.jpg


#2 keepcoding

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 10:36 AM

What do you mean by "I could see the black band/shutter(?) move across the EVF."? Is it only visible in the EVF or also on the final image?

 

As usual, typical sources for this kind of issues are a mismatch of EVF refresh rate and electricity frequency (do you have an imported A7rIII version?) or the electronic first curtain shutter.


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#3 Jaf-Photo

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 10:58 AM

Try disabling electronic first curtain, as that can mess with your bokeh. Disabling means having two mechanical shutter actuations per shot instead of just the one.
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#4 Gdavison4

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 02:26 PM

What I mean by saying I see the black band/shutter moving across the EVF, is that I could see the black band that is visible in the photos that I posted actually moving from bottom to top or right to left if I was shooting vertically. 

 

My A7Riii is from BH Photo, not an import. 

 

It only happened in those very specific situations. I may try to replicate it with e-first curtain off. I checked my settings and it was on if silent shutter was off. 



#5 Username

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 06:23 PM

What was the shutter time ? 



#6 Gdavison4

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 02:20 PM

1/640 on some and 1/250 on others for the ones with the black blobs.
The top 2 banding ones were 1/250.

#7 Username

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 11:32 PM

At 1/250 the shutter gap that scans the format is about 50%

the height of the format, and your blobs are about 50% the

height of the format. The1/640 gap is about 20% the height 

of the format. This more less agrees with your blob sizes. 

  

The 10 or so dark stripes cannot be caused by mechanical 

means at such shutter times, as they are too close together. 

The lines are about 2.5mm apart and the shutter blades gap

at 1/250 is about 12mm. 

  

I fear you have an electronic problem with the readout from 

the sensor ... something like the readout beginning while the 

shutter is still traveling. At any rate, you need repair, or even

a replacement. A further indication that this is an electronic 

malady is that you see it even in the EVF ... which acoarst is 

a readout from the sensor unrelated to the shutter. 

 

A newly released camera should still be under warranty, and 

if you bought an extended warranty that covers accidents, I'd 

crush the camera and get a replacement, given Sony's sorry 

reputation for service. Some vendors offer a 30 day window,

an extended opportunity beyond the day of purchase, to buy

into the extra coverage. 


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#8 Jaf-Photo

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 06:05 AM

You just told a guy to fix his banding by crushing his camera, didn't you?
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#9 Jaf-Photo

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 11:42 AM

Anyway, I wouldn't panic just yet. I think it's a result of using electronic shutter and the camera failing to sync with the lights.
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#10 Gdavison4

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 02:42 PM


  
"The 10 or so dark stripes cannot be caused by mechanical 
means at such shutter times, as they are too close together. 
The lines are about 2.5mm apart and the shutter blades gap
at 1/250 is about 12mm. "

Yes, this was with the electronic shutter.


  
"I fear you have an electronic problem with the readout from 
the sensor ... something like the readout beginning while the 
shutter is still traveling. At any rate, you need repair, or even
a replacement. A further indication that this is an electronic 
malady is that you see it even in the EVF ... which acoarst is 
a readout from the sensor unrelated to the shutter. "
 
It only happened the one time. I'm going on a shoot tonight that might have leds, so we'll see if I can replicate the issue.

Thanks for the input.

#11 Username

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:35 AM

You just told a guy to fix his banding by crushing his camera, didn't you?

  

Perhaps I shioulda used a qualifying phrase such as 

"if I were in your boots .... " ..... but I was NOT joking.  

  

  

`



#12 Jaf-Photo

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 06:55 AM

Perhaps I shioulda used a qualifying phrase such as 
"if I were in your boots .... " ..... but I was NOT joking.  
  
  
`


Well, I wouldn't. Photography works just fine without committing vandalism and insurance fraud.

It's most likely a situational problem and a new camera would perform the same in the same circumstances.
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#13 VTC

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Posted Yesterday, 12:53 AM

Perhaps I shioulda used a qualifying phrase such as 

"if I were in your boots .... " ..... but I was NOT joking.  

  

  

`

 

You're quite a pig there, fellah. (I'm NOT joking either.)



#14 Username

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Posted Yesterday, 02:13 AM

If it's "situational" or user error, well and fine. 

But if it needs service by Sony, I stand by my 

recommendation, regardless of self-righteous 

and ad hominem post by a certain jerk. Drive 

a truck over it or use a baseball bat ... only if 

covered against accidents accoarst ! Or you 

could, if service needed, send it to Sony first, 

so the crusher method will be more appealing 

after you've deal with Sony's service. 



#15 Jaf-Photo

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Posted Yesterday, 06:20 AM

Ad hominem? That would be calling someone a "jerk". Insurance does not cover intentional damage, so you'd have to lie to the insurance company. And a person who is prepared to lie for personal gain is just a liar.


Ad hominem? That would be calling someone a "jerk". Insurance does not cover intentional damage, so you'd have to lie to the insurance company. And a person who is prepared to lie for personal gain is just unreliable.

#16 Username

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Posted Yesterday, 06:41 AM

` 

 

"Insurance does not cover intentional damage" 

 

And thaz a fact ... to which I concur.  

 

You've chosen to use the word "insurance". 

I OTOH used the term "extended coverage" 

cuz it's not the same concept [even tho the 

extended coverage is prolly backed by an 

insurance company].

 

There is actually a difference. There's no need 

to lie to the provider. It's no-questions-asked 

coverage. Left it on the roof of the car ? Your 

forgetfulness is covered. Crushed it to avoid 

dealing with lousy repair service, also covered. 

And they don't differentiate or care whether the 

client is forgetful, frustrated, enraged, careless, 

etc etc. That is very different from "insurance".  

 

BTW I never called anyone ... not any particular 

anyone ... a jerk. Read the post. But if someone 

thinks they might be that jerk, then that would be

a person self-identifying as a jerk. It's their call. 

  

The thread author apparently understood the 

implied message. It's you 3rd parties that get 

all bothered about it.



#17 Jaf-Photo

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Posted Yesterday, 08:33 AM

No, I did not identify myself as a "jerk". I just noted that you called someone a "jerk", which means there is one in the thread. It's probably someone who regularly enjoys being a "jerk", which includes calling other people a "jerk".

Also, regardless of whether the extended "cover" is sold as an insurance policy or warranty, it explicitly only covers accidental damage. So, if you deliberately smash your camera and make a claim then you are engaging in fraudulent action. There's a matter of law, ethics and personal growth here. If you don't lie you tend not to cheat either. And vice versa, of course.

#18 Username

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Posted Today, 12:00 AM

` 

  

 

You take all that very seriously, don't you. 

 

It doesn't matter if you and I agree. The

thread author will make what he will of all 

the advice proffered, and then deal with

the problem as he sees fit. 

 

My advice was, and still is, addressed to 

the thread author. Those who feel need 

to comment on ANY advice in the thread 

are certainly welcome to do so. Attacking  

someone offering advice is OT to say the 

least. If someone needs to be picayune 

over technicalities then they need not do 

intentional harm to the gear. They could 

just put it near a baseball bat, and then 

phone home to wife and say they're at a 

bar with their girlfriend. The gear should 

be well crushed when they arrive home. 

 

The carrier doesn't care or want to know 

those details, but if it gives someone a 

clear conscience, WTF, make that call !



#19 Jaf-Photo

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Posted Today, 11:37 AM

In the same way as you can address anyone on these boards, anyone can address you.

I've been around, I can read people. You have the capacity to be a force for good, if you just stop listening to that little devil on your shoulder.

#20 Username

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Posted Today, 07:17 PM

.........

I've been around, I can read people. ..........  

  

  

You claim to read, and apparently somewhat analyze, peeps.  

  

I would suggest that you read text somewhat more carefully.  

 

Since you're "reading" peeps via text, and your text reading 

shows signs of either careless skimming or reading through 

your personal filters, your reading of peeps is quite filtered.  

 

Example: You have a rather defensive streak. So you state 

"I did not self-identify as a jerk". Thaz due to your tendency 

to read things through your personal filters. Read objectively 

[unfiltered] and you will find NO suggestion that YOU are the 

unnamed jerk. You made NO ad hominem remark toward me 

and the jerk in question is someone who did ... IOW not you. 

That is clear enuf in the text of the post, and in the text of the 

jerk's post. Thaz what I mean about a need to read text better. 





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: a7riii, electronic shutter, banding

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