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How to solve the A7r shutter shock problem (without adding weight to the camera)


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The original A7r in my experience is very prone, especially with long-ish lenses, to disastrous shutter shock that will often render the pictures unusable.

 

This happens especially with the lightest lenses. In my case two of the worst offenders were the Leica R 180 and the Minolta AF 100-300 Apo.

 

Anything shot at less than 1/320s (and up to a few seconds) was bound to show, 90% of the times, substantial vibration-induced blurriness.

 

Just to be clear, because I know this is a debated argument: I normally shot using either a remote (wireless) release or the 10s self-timer, using an heavy tripod (if I remember correctly more or less 3.5Kg, without the head) plus an 8cm wide Arca ball head (more or less another kg) that is almost as large as the A7r itself. The same setup was more than enough to support my 5x7" large format camera without a hitch, but wasn't enough for the Sony!

 

But now I finally found a solution that doesn't involve adding the grip or other kind of weights to the camera.

 

You can read the details here, should you be interested:

 

How to: solve the Sony A7r shutter shock, for good

 

but basically I just jammed cork stripes between the L-bracket and the camera (under the vertical "arm" as well).

 

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Please ignore the small differences in "grain", I had to change the ISOs in order to keep exposure (and aperture) constant while changing the shutter speeds. All shot with the Minolta AF 100-300 Apo @ 300mm

 

Now I can shoot at any shutter speed with impunity, and have to take precautions only in the same conditions that apply to other cameras as well, like heavy winds etc. (and in this case I use, also illustrated in the above mentioned article, a bike inner tube).

 

Hope this can be of help to other A7r owners that have no intention of splurging another 3000€ on a new camera body, nor have more the patience to wait for Sony to release what should have been a fairly simple firmware upgrade to insert a small delay between the push of the shutter button and the start of the first curtain (like Olympus and others did to fight, successfully, this exact phenomenon).

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I've always done this. With bigger gear we used shot-filled 

bags. With the newer smaller gear I stuff rubber, not cork, 

just cuz thaz what I have on hand. I never considered it any 

kind of newsworthy thing to post/report cuz it was common

practice. OTOH, it certainly IS newsworthy that it can even 

cure the notorious shutter shock of the original a7R. Shutter   

shock presents a new problem which is very different from

the mirror shock that was relieved by using mirror lock-up.    

     

Some of the old gear [film era] had tremendous shock, but  

it was mirror shock, the shutters being well behaved. So in 

those situations we could use mirror lock. When the shutter

itself is the culprit, thaz a new and different problem. 

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Yes, mirror-induced shock was easy to cure. Even when I had the Pentax 67 (both the first one without mirror lock up and the 2nd "6x7" model with MLU) a bit of pressure (or a dirt filled beanbag) on top of the pentaprism was all it was needed.

 

But the A7r has proved a tougher nut to crack...

 

Before landing on this solution I tried, unsuccessfully:

 

- adding the grip

- adding weight to the bottom of the tripod center column (minuscule positive difference, but 1 or 2 kg needed!)

- adding weight to the camera (a super heavy duty tripod plate way larger than the Sony I used with my 5x7")

- adding dirt/rice/beans/pebbles filled beanbags on top of the camera

- adding gel filled "ice packs" on top of the camera (in the hope that gel would have absorbed the vibrations)

- jamming strips of shock absorbing gel shoe insoles between the L-bracket and the camera

- adding felt strips

- pushing down on the top of the camera

- using the strap to put downward pressure on the camera (the same I do with the bike tube, but it doesn't work as well probably because not being elastic the strap transmits your vibrations to the camera)

- rubber between the L-bracket and the camera

- different combinations of tripods, plates and heads (I have several at my disposals, I've been shooting for almost 30 years)

 

The only solution that worked was this one, hence the post.

 

Btw, I seriously can't see how Sony engineers could have missed this "feature" testing the camera...or did they test it using only the kit lens?

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Very thorough run down !   

   

As stuffing rubber has worked for me, 

I should mention that often enuf it's a 

solid object only padded with rubber, 

but sometimes just rubber. One of my 

faves is a motor mount from a vacuum 

cleaner. Rubber crutch tips is another.

One of my best sources of padding is 

mouse pads ... do not discard them :-)   

   

Boils down to whatever works. I have

brackets that are not cast metal, just 

formed alloy, so some sort of stuffing 

is always necessary. I use some very

substantial tripods, but my brackets 

are kinda second rate ... reliable and  

durable but not "cast iron". It's mainly 

repurposed ancient flash fittings. 

  

Come to think of it, one of my vibe -  

killing objects is a cork ! A wine cork

stuck into a crutch tip :-) I have a bag

of various such objects, which I keep  

with my macro gear. 

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It reminds a bit of something I used to do when I had the 70-180 Micro-Nikkor. Its tripod plate used to be a bit too "flexible" for my tastes, so following the suggestion of someone I started jamming a roll film holder between the lens and the lens tripod plate. Cheap as dirt but it worked! :)

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I assume you mean a roll film spool ? RFH is

the whole camera back of a 'Blad, RB, etc ;-) 

   

Not pointlessly flaming your vocabulary. I took 

you quite literally at first reading, and I had a  

picture in my mind of a big lump of gear stuck 

into some large space etc. Then I caught your 

"cheap as dirt" remark and it all came clear .... 

after a bit of head scratching.     

  

Prolly was not any problem to readers who 

are too young to have made their living with  

roll film holders, but it sure nailed me !

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I assume you mean a roll film spool ? RFH is

the whole camera back of a 'Blad, RB, etc ;-) 

   

Not pointlessly flaming your vocabulary. I took 

you quite literally at first reading, and I had a  

picture in my mind of a big lump of gear stuck 

into some large space etc. Then I caught your 

"cheap as dirt" remark and it all came clear .... 

after a bit of head scratching.     

  

Prolly was not any problem to readers who 

are too young to have made their living with  

roll film holders, but it sure nailed me !

 

 

LOL  Actually neither, what I meant was a 35mm film canister!

 

These days I'm fighting against a bad attack of Hasselblad-induced G.A.S., hence my slip of the tongue (well, actually of the keyboard but you get the idea!)

 

The Hassy, specifically the 500 series, has been my most loved camera system ever. I sold it after the complete transition to digital (for the serious stuff; for fun I still shoot a bit of film), but after that I bought it back - and then sold again - a couple of times.

 

What happened in each occasion was that I convinced myself to have the time to process and scan the films*, but then the cold reality of days made of just 24h caught with me.

 

Now, if only I could find a relatively modern, over 24Mp, digital back for less than a kidney... :)

 

 

*no, no decent labs in my area anymore; and I tried mailing the stuff in, but it was either mighty expensive or with really poor quality

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm using the A7r2 for the moment, but always bring the A7r1 as back-up.

Liked much the A7r1 but twisted to the A7r2 because of this problem.

 

I've the 70-200mm, would you simply attach it with the "modified" L-bracket or will there be a possibility to transform the tripod mount as well.

Could use the bike-tube solution as well of course....

 

Seems also a very good solution for when I'm taking landscapes pictures in windy conditions, maybe a bike or car elastic strap will do the job as well to and easier to take with me.

Simple but didn't think at this before.

Thanks for this nice solution  !!!!!

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Guest Jaf-Photo

Does anyone know if Sony mitigated the shutter shock in later production runs? I never noticed any sign of ir in my images.

 

Addicted2light. The film dilemma is so true. Nothing beats the aesthetic of a good shot on film. But you do become a slave to the processing and scanning of film.

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Does anyone know if Sony mitigated the shutter shock in later production runs? I never noticed any sign of ir in my images.

 

Addicted2light. The film dilemma is so true. Nothing beats the aesthetic of a good shot on film. But you do become a slave to the processing and scanning of film.

 

 

My suspect is that the shake is heavily lens-dependant (and tripod-dependant, if you don't have a good one, obviously). With some lenses (for example the 180 Leica R) I've seen it even at fairly long shutter speeds, with some others I've never stumbled upon it.

 

As for film, that's a real dilemma. When I used to shoot quite a bit more black & white it wasn't so bad, but in the last couple of years I've been shooting (and "seeing") almost exclusively in color...

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I'm using the A7r2 for the moment, but always bring the A7r1 as back-up.

Liked much the A7r1 but twisted to the A7r2 because of this problem.

 

I've the 70-200mm, would you simply attach it with the "modified" L-bracket or will there be a possibility to transform the tripod mount as well.

Could use the bike-tube solution as well of course....

 

Seems also a very good solution for when I'm taking landscapes pictures in windy conditions, maybe a bike or car elastic strap will do the job as well to and easier to take with me.

Simple but didn't think at this before.

Thanks for this nice solution  !!!!!

 

I think you should be able to jam a strip of cork even under the "normal" plate, if you wish to mount the lens on the tripod instead of the camera. Be aware that this will increase vibrations nonetheless, because the camera will act as a sort of pendulum. I guess you should experiment with your tripod & head to find out if it can work.

 

As for the bike tube, I guess having a piece of steel puncture my bike's inner tube wasn't a complete loss after all ;)

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  • 3 months later...

This is a VERY helpful thread, thanks for posting it. I've used and enjoyed, the "basic" 24mp A7 for nearly 3 years, and have often considered getting the A7R, but this shutter shock issue has always put me off. Now that new A7R's are being offered below £1,000, I am again considering getting one, whilst they are still available.  (The MkII is beyond my price range, and I really prefer the size/weight of the first series A7/A7R)

 

Have you found any differences with the effectiveness of the cork "wedges" and using different L brackets, e.g. RRS vs. Cheaper Chinese copies? (For my A7, I've been very happy with one of the Chinese versions, from eBay.)

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This is a VERY helpful thread, thanks for posting it. I've used and enjoyed, the "basic" 24mp A7 for nearly 3 years, and have often considered getting the A7R, but this shutter shock issue has always put me off. Now that new A7R's are being offered below £1,000, I am again considering getting one, whilst they are still available.  (The MkII is beyond my price range, and I really prefer the size/weight of the first series A7/A7R)

 

Have you found any differences with the effectiveness of the cork "wedges" and using different L brackets, e.g. RRS vs. Cheaper Chinese copies? (For my A7, I've been very happy with one of the Chinese versions, from eBay.)

Sorry I can't directly answer this one, having never used an expensive plate setup like the RSS.

 

But if I had to guess there shouldn't be that much difference, because the biggest problem originates from the lack of a tripod mount on the side of the camera. This makes the vertical section of an L bracket unsupported and inherently shaky.

 

I would buy in an instant, all other things equal, a camera with an Arca compatible base and left side. After all this has been the professional standard for many years, why nobody has thought of this - especially now that the megapixels are rising every year - is beyond me.

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Has anyone read this, as well as the linked articles by Holmes?

 

http://blog.kasson.com/?s=a7R+shutter+shock

 

The keys to avoiding shutter shock (note: Kasson claims it's from the shutter winding mechanism not the shutter blades) are:

 

1. Always mount the camera itself to the tripod, don't use any long lens that has its own tripod foot (leaving the camera body hanging free)

2. Use a cable release or 2 sec delay

3. Use a RRS L-Bracket that is machined to fit the body exactly.

4. Wedge something solid (not cork) between the upright L portion and the body (the strap lug) when shooting vertical.

5. Use a solid tripod and head (of course).

 

The key thing is to make the camera, head and tripod legs into one, solid, unit. 

 

The shock is more pronounced when shooting verticals it seems (judging by shots people have made of UPC bar codes).

 

I don't use any lens longer than my B85. Can't say I've noticed any shots significantly affected by shutter shock.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm still working on this issue, trying to get the cork to work. I'm using pieces cut from a 3mm all-cork wall tile. Certainly, when using a Series 3  Gitzo Systematic CF tripod and Arca Swiss Z1 monorail, it is reduced. However, I would love to get it to completely  disappear, and on my Series 2 Gitzo CF with Markins 10 head, but so far that is a long way from happening. (It's most obvious at 1/80 sec with a 200mm lens)

 

Maybe I'm a bit cautious of over tightening the base screw, as I have heard that the A7R baseplate is rather weak, (rather like on the old Olympus OM1)

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I'm still working on this issue, trying to get the cork to work.

 

 

The best approach is 180 degrees away from "cork". You need to get the "shock" absorbed by the larger mass of the tripod and the best way to do that is to use the RRS L-Bracket firmly attached to camera and a solid head/legs. Using cork or similar tries to retain the "shock" inside the camera. Bad.

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Whatever the physics, if it works I couldn't care less where the shock is dissipated, either absorbed by the tripod or retained in the camera, just so long as everything is sharp!

So far, I have reduced it greatly, but not completely, by using the cork, especially difficult to completely tame in vertical format.

(PS. Spellchecker in my last post has changed monoball to monorail!)

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Guest all8

The cork probably acts like a damper, absorbing some of the vibration, and transmitting some to the tripod. You might find some other materials work as well. I have a pressed leather deskmat, I guess it would work fairly well in your situation. Perhaps a section of bicycle tyre.

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