IRIS problem with 85 1.4 and 24-70 2.8 GM lenses

[Golem]

IIRC the English menu calls it EFFECT,

as in "Effect Preview", or "Effect On" or

some version of "EFFECT". Turn it off.

[detlef]

What is exactly the problem. Phase detection AF works not with closed aperture on the GM lenses? Do the Cam switch to contrast AF or do the GM lenses just open the aperture to focus and close again to take the shot? It is a problem of the mk2 bodys or just GM lenses?

[TheMartinF]

So I am with the OP on this. I preordered the 85 GM but after a day of testing and discovering that issue, I returned it to the dealer. When I posted my findings on Lula and other places, all I got was: yeah that is a firmware issue and will be resolved soon. That was five months ago... 

And then there are those bokeh guys and artisans, don't get my started...

I like the A7R II for it's image quality and portability hoping it could replace both my Hasselblad and Canons, but the 85, which is my most used lens, is really useless for my professional work as a fashion photographer. And it seems things get worse with the 55 starting to behave in the same manner?

 

I am back to using the 5DIII for assignments and the A7RII mostly only for landscape and documentary shooting. If Sony doesn't improve their system, meaning making it work like cameras and lenses have been for decades, I guess I will sell it again and keep the Canons for jobs and get a mirrorless hasselbald or the rumored fuji for my personal work.

[Viramati]

IIRC the English menu calls it EFFECT,

as in "Effect Preview", or "Effect On" or

some version of "EFFECT". Turn it off.

 

Unfortunately this doesn't change the way the Iris stops down when focusing 

[Guest Jaf-Photo]

As a Sony user I am not surprised. They have an engineering and bean-counting perpective on their cameras. They are not really used to taking a user's view. Especially not professional users. To me, it's obvious that they need to involve a reference group of advanced photographers early in their product development.

 

At the moment they are alienating enthusiasts with their pricing and professionals with their senseless bugs.

[100miles]

I own a Sony Alpha 7ii and the 1,4 85 GM/2,8 24-70 GM and also have lots of trouble with the AF. I get the best results using the P mode. Did you read right? Yes you did, the P mode! Almost every pic shot in P is sharp, using M or A is terrible, the AF is hunting and unsharp pictures are the result most of the time. I was thinking about upgrading to the Alpha 7Rii because of the better AF, but this doesn't seem to be the best idea at the moment.

 

So what should I do? Wait for a (never arriving) firmware update?

Buy the A7Rii for lots of money?

Wait for a 7iii?

Or say goodbye to Sony and get a Canon Eos 5D Mark IV?

I really don't know...

[Bechti71]

This is exactly where I am.

I used to work with Nikon and still have a D810. Then I started to think about an A7rII because of so many positive remarks I read. 

Mainly because of weight and handy usage of the sony I then bought one, despite the fact of too few lenses available. 

I was so happy when I saw Sony starting to produce the GM's and I hoped to get incredible quality. Which was the case! The 85 and 24-70 are great lenses with fantastic sharpness. I see both and also the 35f1.4 and the 55f1.8 are much sharper than any of my Nikons. So great deal so far.

But then I realized the lenses are even bigger and heavier then the one of the competitors. In combination with these lenses the A7rII + Lens is now same size and in some cases same weight as the D810 with Nikon lenses - The advantage of weight and size is gone!

 

Now, after a couple of month I realized some further disadvantages.

- Build quality of my Nikon seems to me much better. Never ever had fear about my gear. But using the A7rII I always try to take care not to scratch something as I found the gear somehow more fragile. Just mounting the lenses feels much better with the Nikon. 

- Focus speed is still not comparable to my Nikon

- Now, I also realized the problem of this topic discussed here

- Terrible to change focus point in the AF area

 

What do now? I am also thinking about changing to Canon due to great lenses. I want to have similar lens quality of Sony which I do not found using the Nikon.

But Canon body is not able to provide same dynamic range and image quality as the Nikon D810 or Sony....

You will never find a perfect solution, but which one is close enough to it?

[JCC]

I am wondering how much of the is caused by the body of the lens  blocking 80% of the focus assist LED beam. 

 

JCC

[jonneymendoza01]

And people moan how bad the new 5d4 is! Sony has its issues I'm afraid

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[magicklens]

I own both 85mm and 24-70 GM lenses.  This thread confirms my suspicions regarding the completely unreliable focus performance I've experience over the last two studio sessions. They show up around f8 in my case. When the 24-70 does lock on it produces beautiful images.  Can't say about the 85MM since I never was able to shoot a session with it.  The lens, which I've owned for 60 days, refused to focus at all when mounted for the first shoot and is in a shop for warranty 'repairs'. QC and studio performance limitations should be shouted from the roof tops for lenses touted as professional hardware and sold at premium prices.  Not a word on line from Sony's Artisans on this...

[magicklens]

The studio issues I had recently involved a the 24-70 GM  on and A7RII with a lot of critical eye focus going on in low light using multiple flash units without modelling lights.  The previous low light situation I was in was a wedding reception where ambient light was much lower.  I was using an A7II with a 24-70 f4.  The 24-70 f4 performed beautifully for all shots include the mid air garter and flower toss.  The difference was that I was using wide area single shot autofocus (shooting at f8 -f11) with flash. Yes, single shot AFS autofocus for the toss.  I stood center with the thrower and receivers in the same plane and locked focus on the groom/bride using a wide angle setting that took in the whole scene. The fast flash unit and lens combo caught the event perfectly in focus frame by frame.  The point being that the camera appears to do much better when using multiple focus points versus a single point in low light which seems logical. When combined with a smaller aperture for increased depth of field (insurance) the outcome is as expected.

 

A dimly lit portrait situation when using a single point autofocus method and/or eye AF (especially AFC) is quite a different matter.

[Miguel Quiles]

Hi everybody here. I’m following a suggestion from Mark Galer that personally said to contact Miguel Quiles but Miguel never ansewered so you’re my last hope and probably my best too…

This is a brief summary of my problem:

 

The megaissue is with the Sony A7rII (but guess it’s applicable to other ILCEs too) and the two new GM lenses (24-70 and 85).

The issue is related to the the iris not opening while focusing with the 85 1.4 and 24-70 2.8GM. Setting Effect ON/OFF toggle has no effect (mine is always on OFF anyway).

Practically speaking, you can’t focus accurately in normal dimly lit studio situations when shooting over f4.

Iris stay closed while focusing and focus accuracy and speed drop.

If you have to shoot at f8 (and in studio that’s the norm, but f5.6 proved impossible too) you can’t really focus at all unless you’ve a lot of ambient too, even manually because the same accuracy drop is in the viewfinder, stopped down you can’t see the exact focus point.

It's a total show stopper. Previously I was using a Metabones/Canon 24/70 and Canon 85 combo with optimal results but I mistakenly thought that the new Sony duo would have been a wonderful choice and actually they are, but only when shooting wide open or almost wide open. Stopped down the focus is simply unusable and even worse prone to errors.

 

My question is: does anybody here know if Sony is aware of the issue and is going to fix it?

Why they did such a big mistake with the new GM lenses?

I’ve checked online and it's not my problem, everybody working professionally noticed the very same issue.

You can find a detailed description of the issue on diglloyd just to quote one.

He finds that even at f4 accuracy drops below the acceptable range. My results at f4 were slightly better but probably because people moves all the time so there are more chances that they move also towards the focus point.

 

If I need to shoot at f8 with studio flashes how can I focus this way? I can't realistically open iris and then close before every single click. Does anybody know of any engineer’s email that I can contact about this?

Is there a way to contact a Sony developer directly? You know, writing to support emails is totally useless for such critical but very peculiar issuers…

Thank you for your time. Really.

Hope you’ll have something for me.

Ideally, a forthcoming software update…

 

Best regards and thanks again.

 

Maurizio Camagna

Hey Maurizio. Not sure if my response ever made it to you, but here goes.

 

I shoot in studio situations all the time and I often shoot in low light situations with both of the GM lenses you mentioned. I have never had any issues whatsoever focusing. I simply turn off the Live View Display setting, and can shoot at any aperture without any troubles. I've shot wide open with HSS, higher apertures, etc and it doesn't affect my hit rate at all. Your AF assist light should be helping you out to focus when you're in super low light situations anyway. Hope you've figured out a way to make the system work for you. 

 

MQ

[SA2016]

lol there's your artisan for you, experts in avoiding the question & actual problem while offering absolutely no helpful advice what so ever.

[Miguel Quiles]

lol there's your artisan for you, experts in avoiding the question & actual problem while offering absolutely no helpful advice what so ever.

I addressed the question. I shoot in "dimly lit studio situations" as high as f16 and have never experienced these issues with any of my lenses. Take a look at any of my shots on IG ( you'll see a ton of studio shots that were done in those exact situations. The only thing I could think of is that there's an issue with this users camera, as none of my own (A7II, A7RII, A7SII) have any of the problems described in the original post. 

 

MQ

[magicklens]

I addressed the question. I shoot in "dimly lit studio situations" as high as f16 and have never experienced these issues with any of my lenses. Take a look at any of my shots on IG ( you'll see a ton of studio shots that were done in those exact situations. The only thing I could think of is that there's an issue with this users camera, as none of my own (A7II, A7RII, A7SII) have any of the problems described in the original post. 

 

MQ

That users camera, my A7RII (with my 24-70 GM)  and quite a few other users as well.  I'm pleased you haven't experienced these issues but that's not the same as having addressed the question. I don't think we have mass hallucination going on here. No flame, it's just that most probably agree that you may be a little closer to having an ear at Sony than the rest of us. Please bring this to their attention.

 

Maybe software, possibly not an issue with all lenses, maybe only at certain apertures... I know the problem may be subtle involve software and hardware interactions on multiple levels, difficult to pin down and diagnose. Sony is relatively new and pushing ahead very fast in the still photo mirrorless arena and IMO some of this is what you get as an early adopter. Photography is a side business to them as is very evident when you navigate through their product support site to finally reach cameras. I took the plunge knowing this just the same having had issues with other Sony products in the past.  "Remember when" their TV's were a symbol for Quality? I'll just find a workaround until a software update emerges that somehow makes a problem go away that was never admitted to in the first place.

[OlHeath]

Just did some tests and there does seem to be an issue here. Tested 24-70 gm, 85mm gm, 35mm 1.4, an a7ii and an a7rii. TLDR - there's a problem here.

 

With setting effect OFF, centre focus, AF-S, f11-f16:

 

7rii + 85 gm = iris stays closed to focus

7rii + 24-70gm = iris stays closed to focus

7rii + 35mm 1.4 = iris opens to focus

 

7ii - iris opens to focus with all three lenses

 

So, it seems to me, the problem is neither the 7rii nor the GMs, but the combination of the 7rii and the GMs. And Sony really should resolve this as a top priority.

 

I am familiar with the OPs story because I had exactly the same experience, studio lights, 7rii, 85mm gm, and at apertures below f4 or f5.6 it just would not focus, which was actually quite embarrassing. (As welll as the GM making so much noise hunting the model asked if it was my stomach grumbling.)

 

Sony please fix this ASAP. Sony artisans, please try and push them to address this. As it stands the 7ii is a better studio shooter with the GMs than the 7rii.

 

Firmware: a7ii is on 3.10, 7rii is on 3.30

 

It could be the firmware. Anyone have a 7ii on 3.2 or 3.3 they could test with?

[Holger]

So I am with the OP on this. I preordered the 85 GM but after a day of testing and discovering that issue, I returned it to the dealer. When I posted my findings on Lula and other places, all I got was: yeah that is a firmware issue and will be resolved soon. That was five months ago... 

And then there are those bokeh guys and artisans, don't get my started...

I like the A7R II for it's image quality and portability hoping it could replace both my Hasselblad and Canons, but the 85, which is my most used lens, is really useless for my professional work as a fashion photographer. And it seems things get worse with the 55 starting to behave in the same manner?

 

I am back to using the 5DIII for assignments and the A7RII mostly only for landscape and documentary shooting. If Sony doesn't improve their system, meaning making it work like cameras and lenses have been for decades, I guess I will sell it again and keep the Canons for jobs and get a mirrorless hasselbald or the rumored fuji for my personal work.

Why not using the Batis 85/1.8? Mine is focussing wide open when stopping down contrary to the 85GM. IQ is stellar.

[dcolak]

The problem is A7RII firmware update. One of the updates brought the change and destroyed higher F focusing.

 

I learned my lesson with NEX-7 "better image quality FW updates." Each update messed with IQ.

 

My A7RII is on FW 1.0 and will stay like that forever.

 

No problems focusing with open iris.

 

Ah yes, there is no downgrade once you update the FW.

 

All those "reviewers" and "artisans" can k*ss my a**, they are incompetent or simply liars.

[OlHeath]

The problem is A7RII firmware update. One of the updates brought the change and destroyed higher F focusing.

 

I learned my lesson with NEX-7 "better image quality FW updates." Each update messed with IQ.

 

My A7RII is on FW 1.0 and will stay like that forever.

 

No problems focusing with open iris.

 

Ah yes, there is no downgrade once you update the FW.

 

All those "reviewers" and "artisans" can k*ss my a**, they are incompetent or simply liars.

 

Seems amazing that a big company could screw something so badly with firmware, making their top end products unfit for purpose (GMs in studio). More incredible still is that it remains unfixed. I hope SAR, artisans, whoever, can tell Sony this needs fixing right now.

[Lotus Eater]

Just did some tests and there does seem to be an issue here. Tested 24-70 gm, 85mm gm, 35mm 1.4, an a7ii and an a7rii. TLDR - there's a problem here.

 

With setting effect OFF, centre focus, AF-S, f11-f16:

 

7rii + 85 gm = iris stays closed to focus

7rii + 24-70gm = iris stays closed to focus

7rii + 35mm 1.4 = iris opens to focus

 

7ii - iris opens to focus with all three lenses

 

So, it seems to me, the problem is neither the 7rii nor the GMs, but the combination of the 7rii and the GMs. And Sony really should resolve this as a top priority.

 

I am familiar with the OPs story because I had exactly the same experience, studio lights, 7rii, 85mm gm, and at apertures below f4 or f5.6 it just would not focus, which was actually quite embarrassing. (As welll as the GM making so much noise hunting the model asked if it was my stomach grumbling.)

 

Sony please fix this ASAP. Sony artisans, please try and push them to address this. As it stands the 7ii is a better studio shooter with the GMs than the 7rii.

 

Firmware: a7ii is on 3.10, 7rii is on 3.30

 

It could be the firmware. Anyone have a 7ii on 3.2 or 3.3 they could test with?

Interesting findings.

 

My A7II is still on 2.0 and I was about to upgrade it to 3.2 (the latest version). I'm a bit reluctant to do so now and might upgrade to 3.1 instead.

[Golem]

Surely there is a way for Sony to allow retrograde "updates" .... or

maybe that would be "backdates". Basically, reissue earlier FW

with a change to the code that gives it its rank in the sequence of

updates. IOW, crudely put, rename/hack the old FW such that the

camera reads it as being the very latest FW update. Maybe some

13-year-old somewhere on the planet will do it as a school project

and post it for downloading :-)  

[vettori]

Hello, new user here. I do a lot of studio shots. I found this thread after trying my new A7R2 with 85GM (the only lens I have at the moment) and found that it always focuses stopped down.

Any news on a fix ? Firmware 3.3 on the camera. Tried every combination of af mode / settings, it's always stopped down.

Thanks

[SA2016]

Nothing as yet vettori, unfortunately it sounds like you've found out the hard way regarding this iris issue, pretty much like the rest of us here,

 

The silence from Sony and there "Artisans of Sales" is deafening , regretfully it seems there are some shooting situations this system is not capable of competing in,

 

In fact, we all know Mr Quiles likes producing videos, maybe one day he'd like to release one showing us all how he gets his great results when dealing with the issues that are mentioned in this post ? 

 

Goodluck 

[100miles]

It's a shame, Sony does nothing to fix that, I can't believe that all these artisans don't have these problems.

We can only pray for A7iii/A9 with better AF...

[oriomenoni]

Same problem here: I tried shooting portraits in studio with strobes with the Batis 85mm at f/8 and the Eye Autofocus did not work. Actually, even normal Center autofocus had problem locking on. The strobes' guide light was just not powerful enough.
What I did to overcome the problem is to add a led light continuous sourced next to the main strobe. Not too powerful to be captured, not too dim to be useless. Of course I set the shutter speed to the shortest possible time (to ensure that the led light influence was minimal on the picture.
Having that said, it is absurd to be forced to do something like that in order to use the camera. It is not professional. I may expect something like this from a consumer camera, not from a camera that costs 3200 Euros and has 42 Mp resolution, which means studio use.

I opened a discussion on another very popular forum last May, but got very little feedback. I'm glad to see that now more and more users are aware of the problem. I woudl suggest that we may make a letter to Sony, requesting them to add in firmware the option to set focusing always wide open available. We may add all our signatures on the letter. Perhaps if 50 or 100 people write to them, they would listen...