Online has very differing views on the A7ii 5 axis. Tell me how it is.

[lo9rd]

Hi folks.

 

I have been a happy owner of the a100, a700 and a77 as well as the RX100 for a while now, yet the last few months I have had a growing feeling I need/want to go full frame.

I have narrowed my desires down to the A7 or the A7ii, as for my experience, I would say I am a mid level enthusiast, not great, not a noob.

 

My use is basic daily documenting in a tattoo studio where I work, and the low light environment of gigs. I like all sorts of photography, but these are the factors I consider when getting a new camera. I need high quality for presenting our artists portfolio, I need good low light for gigs. The A77 which I mainly use is really finding it's limitations in some of the dingier venues in the city I live in so I am hoping a good full frame will help me.

 

It really comes down to, is the A7ii worth it over the A7 right now and the main upgrades I can see are the ergonomics and 5 axis stabilisation. Ergonomics are good, but I have small hands and I have played about with an A7 in a Sony Centre and it felt ok. Now it really comes down to is the 5 axis worth it? And I can't for the life of me find a definitive answer.

Many reviews praise it, many bloggers say "meh". I've heard it drains the battery, it doesn't work well in low light (*ding ding ding* major concern for my

 

So what do you fine people think? If I get the cheaper A7 I could probably get a nicer lens with it, if I go the A7ii, I think I'd go for the kit for now and the LA-EA4 adaptor with the intention to upgrade the kit asap.

[Guest all8]

Low light = A7s

[Vivek]

Low light = A7s

Yes.

 

In addition;

There aren't any fast lenses (prime or zoom) that can offer 5 axis stabilization with the A7 II, only slow zooms.

 

The A7 II 5 axis is a white elephant from Sony (for the reason stated above).

[Cojo]

Yes.

 

In addition;

There aren't any fast lenses (prime or zoom) that can offer 5 axis stabilization with the A7 II, only slow zooms.

 

The A7 II 5 axis is a white elephant from Sony (for the reason stated above).

Say what?

 

Any lens you put on a a7II will have 5-axis IBIS.

[Vivek]

Say what?

 

Any lens you put on a a7II will have 5-axis IBIS.

Nope!

 

Check with Sony.  My post is based on what Sony themselves have said.

[Guest all8]

Who cares about IBIS ...

 

 

 it doesn't work well in low light (*ding ding ding* major concern for me)

 

... the OP wants the A7s.

[Cojo]

Nope!

 

Check with Sony.  My post is based on what Sony themselves have said.

 

Proof??

 

The IBIS in the a7ii works with any attached lens.

 

"Use your favorite lenses with minimized blur from camera shake.

With image stabilization built it into the body of the camera itself, mounted lenses—even A-mount or non-Sony lenses using an adaptor 2—can utilize the 5-axis image stabilization for both still images and video. It even enhances lenses that already have optical image stabilization systems."

[Lefty]

I'm happy with A7ii, LA-EA4 and A mount lenses. No SSS/IBIS was the deal breaker for me on earlier A7x cameras. IBIS is 1-2 stops better than SSS on A100 and A65 for me. My old 50mm f1.7, ISO 6,400 and 1/20th make for good exposure in low light. Compared to what? Looks like A7s will take pictures in the dark. Do you really need that, and hand held, how much real advantage is there if you lose 3-4 stops from no IBIS? A7ii ISO goes to 25k, but that's pretty noisy for the two stops it gets you over 6,400. From other conversation I've seen recently, it looks like the A7ii will give you 2-3 stops over the A77. That's a combination of IBIS and sensor.

 

All your A mount glass will be right at home on A7ii/LA-EA4, especially Minolta, they are almost all FF and cheap these days. Even many APS-C lenses give pretty good FF images. Vignetting shows mostly on wider lenses, or you can choose an APS-C slice from FF sensor.

[lo9rd]

Who cares about IBIS ...

 

 

... the OP wants the A7s.

 

As I am a enthusiast and not a pro, that 12 megapixel count just doesn't do it for me, versatility is almost as important as the low light. I love the 24 megapixels on my A77 and while 18-20 would be fine, I don't really want to drop any lower (also have no desire to go higher either).

I think the best thing to do really is to just wait and see what Sony do, and while I am waiting for the camera that will suit my needs best, I can buy some E mount FF lenses.

I am on a budget and any purchases will be significant to me, so while buying lenses for a camera I don't yet own might be painful for a while, it will pay off in the long run.

[Guest all8]

The camera that suits your needs best is the A7s, and I got a feeling you would enjoy the Loxia 50 or Zeiss 55 for both the artwork and gig shots, depending on the look you want. Possibly even both! For me personally the Full Frame experience is a big improvement over APS-C ... and I'm only an enthusiast.

 

12MP of perfection, or 24MP of high ISO mush. Sony is not going to do anything that will change that basic relationship when it comes to low light.

[Vivek]

 

 

12MP of perfection, or 24MP of high ISO mush. Sony is not going to do anything that will change that basic relationship when it comes to low light.

 

Correct!

 

Just looking through the EVF (just to discount any ahutter related issues) of poorly lit object at a distance at ISO5000 using an A7r and an A7s convinced me what would give me sharper iimages with lots of details.

 

Sadly, it isn't more pixels.

[lo9rd]

12MP of perfection, or 24MP of high ISO mush. Sony is not going to do anything that will change that basic relationship when it comes to low light.

 

Technology is always marching forward and Sony as usual is at the head of it.

Maybe we won't have a higher MP, great ISO in the next camera, but even a few years ago a usable 12000 ISO was pretty unheard of at any megapixel. It's not outwith the realms of imagination that a 16MP-18MP camera will come along with simialr low light technology soon.

 

Sadly I live in Scotland and nowhere I have been to in the "big" cities have an A7s to play with. I'd love to see if the lower megapixel count is a factor to me, but the more I think about it now, I think now might just not be the time to upgrade to full frame.

[lo9rd]

In regard to the 5axis debate on which lenses work. All the Sony FF E mount lenses work with 5 axis. Others use 3 axis.

So you are both kind of right, it's Sony's false spin on things again like their "14 bit" RAW files which are not true 14 bit at all.

[Lefty]

The way Sony gets high ISO is pretty simple. The bigger the pixels, the more photons hit each one. The pixels in the A7s are huge, that is why they are so sensitive to light, and why there are so relatively few of them on the sensor. While there will continue to be progress in everything, we're not likely to see very high ISO out of sensors with the smaller pixels it would take to put 50% more of them on a sensor for quite awhile.

[rantor49]

I'd go for the A7ii. iBIS works great imo. Works on native lenses along with legacy glass. Build quality is top notch. Great camera for the money.

[jake2]

In regard to the 5axis debate on which lenses work. All the Sony FF E mount lenses work with 5 axis. Others use 3 axis.

So you are both kind of right, it's Sony's false spin on things again like their "14 bit" RAW files which are not true 14 bit at all.

Sony has clearly stated that 5-axis requires a lens that can communicate actual focus distance. That includes all E-mount (not just FF) and almost all A-mount lenses.

Lenses that cannot communicate focus distance get 3-axis stabilization, where only focal lenght information is required.

[Vivek]

Sony has clearly stated that 5-axis requires a lens that can communicate actual focus distance. That includes all E-mount (not just FF) and almost all A-mount lenses.

Lenses that cannot communicate focus distance get 3-axis stabilization, where only focal lenght information is required.

 

 

That is the correct information!

 

Sony lenses with 8 point contacts and Canon lenses with a proper adapter can offer 5 axis stabilization.

[ptortora]

I currently own an a7ii and although I appreciate the improvements that Sony has incorporated into this latest a7 series (stabilization, new body style, improved focus...), I'm sorry I didn't go for the a7s instead as I do a lot of low light photography.  I was on the fence between the three models (a7, a7ii, a7s) but choose the a7ii due to it being the latest generation.   Don't get me wrong, the a7ii is a great all around camera, but that's just it... it's an "all around" camera.  Great feel in the hands, stabilization is very useful at times, a bit better focusing (which IMO still has a way to go to catch up to DSLR's), all significant enough enhancements to warrant the extra bucks from the a7 in my opinion.  However, the a7ii does a lot well but nothing stellar as the a7s on the other hand is stellar when it comes to low light light photography.  If you're doing a lot of images in limited lighting, I strongly suggest the a7s and my 2nd choice would be the a7ii.  12mp should be fine unless you are doing poster size prints or larger on a regular basis.  Ideally, I wish I held out for the future a7sii but with Sony, who knows when!

[Lefty]

A7s is unquestionably amazing at high ISO, and the hands down choice if you're shooting low light on a tripod. But, if you're shooting handheld, with IBIS, you get the equivalent of ISO 409600 shooting at ISO 25600, allowing for 4 stops IBIS shake suppression. An A7ii image at 25600 is a heck of a lot better than the A7s at 409600. Even if you don't get quite that much anti shake, the difference, hand held, may actually favor the A7ii. Put it on a tripod though and all bets are off, the A7s is where it's at.

 

We all shoot differently, so we make different choices in cameras, and with good reason. Hand held, natural light/low light is what I like, so A7ii with a fairly fast lens, IBIS and LA-EA4 to use my A mount lenses was an easy choice. Your mileage may vary.

 

ps: You can step through images comparing A7s and A7r at different ISOs here: http://www.popphoto.com/gallery/sony-a7s-a7r-nikon-d4s-high-iso-comparison-gallery If anything because of the larger pixels, A7ii will have less high ISO noise than A7r.

[Neroon]

Not sure where the bitching comes from. I have two A7II cameras and love IBIS. The only issue is making sure to set it when changing manual focus lenses. Otherwise I have images shot with the 24-70mm all the way down to 1/8th of a sec handheld. I am sold.

 

[lo9rd]

Thanks to Neroon and Lefty for their replies.

 

They were both massively helpful to me and not just a reply seeing that I need low light and automatically suggesting the A7s without any explanation.

The A7ii is where I was leaning towards as most of my work will be handheld.

 

On SAR today there is a rumour of new cameras being announced in May, I will hold off till then, see what comes, but most likely I think that the A7ii is what I want. By then there might be a bit of a price drop on the A7ii anyway. If something that seems to fit my needs even better comes along, well that's just a bonus too.

 

Win win I think,

[Lefty]

Glad to have been of some help. Nice part is that in addition to win win there is no lose when choosing between/among nice cameras. Wish I had a crystal ball and could tell when Sony was going to drop more new cameras, but I don't. Suspect the A7ii will have to quit flying off the shelves first, but maybe not. In the meantime, you're not camera deprived. I like the A7ii better, but am still driving an A65 too. It is still a very nice camera. Your A77 is nicer than that, and with the RX100 you've got something compact to carry. Not a bad world!

[Mark Galer]

For a real-time demo of how Steadyshot improves the steadiness of a non-native telephoto lens watch my YouTube movie.

https://youtu.be/0t0d8W7qX80
The change when Steadyshot is witched on is dramatic.

M

[lo9rd]

Wow, that example of the 180mm on and off is something else!

I think the A7ii + several backup batteries will be on the cards soon.

 

As Lefty said as well, I am far from camera deprived, I just feel I want to go full frame sooner rather than later at this point. But I definitely won't be forum lurking asking for more more more, I have plenty to be using now anyway!

[K2Kevin]

Simple... I'm very happy with the 5 axis stabilization, especially in low light. Low shutter speeds, hand holding has never been so sharp for me.