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The A99mk2 will not be released before June 2016

A99 FF A99 mk2 Professional DSLR

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#21 molan

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 12:31 PM

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A-mount is a problem for Sony, they wish they didn't have the A-mount because it's a loose loose situation for them.

They are dammed if they let A-mount users down and they are dammed if they don't.

 

I think Yutaka Iwatsuki's quote about A-mount's future speaks for itself. They are only keep A-mount alive until E-mount can fulfil all photographic tasks (including sports and wildlife and very low light AF).

They fear A-mount uses reaction when they kill A-mount, so they pretend to care by releasing produces they know won't make a profit (no big sales), only to keep A-mount users from not leaving Sony altogether. 

 

Many of us wished A-mount where the future but realises it's doomed, so we move to other brands or move to E-mount - unfortunately E-mount is not yet matured, too few native lenses, non for wildlife, too few fast zooms (although the most important ones are on it's way) and virtually no third part support...making all native lenses super expensive and from a price point uncompetitive compare to all other brands and formats.

 

Adapters are what saves the day for E-mount, allowing users to transit into E-mount smoothly, and with their old lens collection intact. Adapters will need to improve to the point where it can deliver almost native performance, or Sony's many features will suffer without native lenses.

 

I don't know what to say, but I hate A-mount is dyeing but can't do anything but watch and spend money, first at a dual system, then eventually a new system.

 

"

  1. A-mount future:
    Yutuka says there are two reason to keep A-mount:
    The first is that the A-mount has certain advantages over the E mount and, for now, we can not have all the same functionalities between A and E mount.
    The second reason is that they “we have many customers that we can not give up.
     It is a promise to our customers.“" - http://www.sonyalpha...-our-customers/


#22 delewin

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 10:40 PM

Hi all,

 

I think adibasco has identified the long term solution for Sony.

As molan highlights, Sony is in a loose / loose with the current situation.

 

A possible solution for Sony is creating a new adaptor (say we call it the LEA5) "porting" all the functionality of the native FE lenses with the A7r mk2 to the larger A mount glass.

 

Then the A mount user base could reasonably be expected to gradually move over to the FE series bodies. (As we all know, we keep the lenses but update the bodies.)

 

The A mount lenses might have a design limitation in that they are not "focus by wire" or something else that stops them from using all the features that the native FE mount lenses can on the A7r mk2 body. I think the older screw focus lenses will not be supported going forward as electronic control becomes more critical. Hopefully SAM motor focus will be supported. I am sure SSM motor focus would be supported.

 

So, in the mean time how many new native A mount bodies will be produced by Sony?

 

I still think the A99 mk2 will be produced but it is now looking more like very late in 2016 or even 2017 as the release date :(

 

I also think it will be pitched by Sony as a direct competitor to the top of the line Nikon and Canon DSLRs.

 

When Sony produces the FE mount A9 with all "bells & whistles" then the writing will definitely "be on the wall" for the end of the A mount full frame bodies.

 

 

All A mount users continue to be very frustrated because:

 

1.  Both the LEA3 and the LEA4 adaptors do not provide all the features the A7r mk2 can use when it is mated to a native FE mount lens. (This is generally a deal breaker to move over to the FE mount mirrorless body.)

2.  Sony has delayed the release of the A99 mk2 for reasons not disclosed time and time again.

3.  Feel free to add to this list.



#23 molan

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 10:36 AM

delewin I don't think SAM and SSM will ever be a problem, they work as it is now.

 

In order to make A-mount be as E-mount lenses new firmware have to replace the in lens firmware, and the adapters have to do that - making only original Sony's fully compatible (Tamron and sigma need to make their own adapters for A-mount lenses, just like Sigma did for it's Canon lenses).

 

I don't think we can avoid a costly lose in lenses, if we want full functionality and speed, but being able to uses uses contrast detection should be possible and then eye AF would be possible.

 

Another possibility is the make a new LEA4 adapter, with many new focus points covering most of the screen and let it support eye autofocus, it would be a costly adapter though and require firmware update on the cameras as well.

 

Right now the problem is pricing, I can't speed the money as Sony prices dictates (there is a reason why I have mostly Sigma and Tamron lens for A-mount, and it is the price). E-mount costing even more and with no Tamron/Sigma alternatives is a big problem - then only adapters can save the day.

 

If you have the money then the move to E-mount is problem free, once the fast zoom are available. 



#24 D700

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 04:36 PM

 

...

They are dammed if they let A-mount users down and they are dammed if they don't....

 

Don't think so; they have to kill A-Mount to focus for the future.

So the best way is tot do nothing and wait.

Maybe they loose one A-Mount customer/day and win 100 in the same time.

It's only a question of time - sittin' and waitin' ...

 

To tell the world "A-Mount ist dead" would be Harakiri and the wrong strategy



#25 molan

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 08:31 PM

Don't think so; they have to kill A-Mount to focus for the future.

So the best way is tot do nothing and wait.

Maybe they loose one A-Mount customer/day and win 100 in the same time.

It's only a question of time - sittin' and waitin' ...

 

To tell the world "A-Mount ist dead" would be Harakiri and the wrong strategy

 

And that is why they won't say so for years, the will release ab A-mount lens or camera pr. year but that's it - and no ground breaking cameras, just minor updates to keep it "alive" until E-mount is ready to do it all.

 

For now only A-mount is suitable for wildlife and low light focusing. They need to overcome some obstacles before they can finally kill A-mount. Most A-mount users will do dual with E-mount camera and A-mount lenses, they will loose customers, but so does canikon, all dSLR's are bleeding these years. Mirrorless however is ever growing.



#26 delewin

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 02:56 AM

If we look at the new Amount, APS-C model recently released and soon to be available, the A68 I think it provides an insight to Sony's marketing and long term development strategy.

 

Where are all the pre-release reviews like we see for the A6300 and have seen for the A7r mk2? The simple answer is obvious. - None!

 

What can we conclude from this real world example?

 

1. It appears to confirm Molan's conclusions above that Sony is in fact just tinkering with the A mount bodies to keep all the A mount user base from creating very bad publicity for Sony.

 

2. Also it appears that Sony looks like will be "forced" to create one more high end A mount  to compete directly with the latest Nikon and Canon. But I feel we would be deluding ourselves if we expect any further significant upgrades in future native A mount bodies.

 

We have been patiently waiting for over 2 years now and it appears we will be waiting another year.

 

Does Sony realise that the longer Sony delays the release of the A99 mk2 the stronger the reality becomes that Sony has really deserted its full frame A mount customer base?

 

So as the saying goes: "The ball is in Sony's court".

 

More real-ware and not vapour-ware from Sony is required. Words with substance not just marketing hype.

 

What do you say, Sony?



#27 danmleephoto

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 11:03 AM

I find it weird that 3rd party OEMs are still making A Mount lenses, personally as a pro I like E Mount BUT its missing some features I love in my a99 and I would die for an a99II - a7 battery life sucks so bad, I have got the case relay from Tether Tools which has solved a problem but then a new problem, you cant use the grip - which throws the cameras balance waaayyy offf. Also only one SD card slot which proper irritates me, no GPS, not very well weather sealed (I got through two cameras in very very light mist) no rear lock that works well. a99 doesnt have that either but almost dam impossible to knock that out, unlike the ISO on the A7II / A7RII

 

The 70-200mm f4 lens sucks compared to the Tamron for the A Mount, especially with dim room focus.

 

I dont like the adapters especially the EA4 as its slow and doesnt do a good job in the dark, you seem to lose a 1 1/2 stop.

 

Give me a pro grade a99II as the a7RII for all its glory just ISNT pro.



#28 molan

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 08:32 AM

I find it weird that 3rd party OEMs are still making A Mount lenses, personally as a pro I like E Mount BUT its missing some features I love in my a99 and I would die for an a99II - a7 battery life sucks so bad, I have got the case relay from Tether Tools which has solved a problem but then a new problem, you cant use the grip - which throws the cameras balance waaayyy offf. Also only one SD card slot which proper irritates me, no GPS, not very well weather sealed (I got through two cameras in very very light mist) no rear lock that works well. a99 doesnt have that either but almost dam impossible to knock that out, unlike the ISO on the A7II / A7RII

 

The 70-200mm f4 lens sucks compared to the Tamron for the A Mount, especially with dim room focus.

 

I dont like the adapters especially the EA4 as its slow and doesnt do a good job in the dark, you seem to lose a 1 1/2 stop.

 

Give me a pro grade a99II as the a7RII for all its glory just ISNT pro.

 

Actually Sigma have stopped making A-mount lenses (you won't see any new releases from Sigma).

 

As I pro you can afford the E-mount lenses but almost $4000 for a 70-200 f/2.8 in the EU is insane, it closes to twice the Canon, Sony A-mount and Nikon prices for the same lens!!!

 

Not many private users can afford this kind of overprice (sure if you are rich and don't care about money).

 

I would like a FF setup with a 24-70 and 70-200 f/2.8 over $10,000 in E-mount, $7-8,000 in Nikon (D810), Pentax less than $6000.

 

Sony is by far the most expensive, better quality lens, sure, but if it's only very high end with G master and Zeiss, yet no professional services (Sony don't have pro service here in my country,  only  Canon and Nikon), then the customers will be limited to rich enthusiasts - a bit like Leica.

 

E-mount if only viable if adapted lenses are uses, unfortunately they have very limited AF capabilities - no eye AF and no video AF, really deal breakers for me.


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#29 delewin

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 12:18 PM

I think Tamron is the only significant (in market share) lens manufacturer to create a new A-mount lens recently.

 

Could it be the simple fact that Sony owns ~12% of Tamron and Tamron are doing this to "show" that they believe Sony when it says it is coming out with a new full frame A mount body in 2016.

 

Or is it the simple fact that Sony owns ~12% of Tamron and is "pushing" Tamron into this to shift the focus away from the large number of full frame A-mount lens users that are really frustrated by Sony's lack of information on the future of Pro FF A-mount bodies?

 

I do agree with the previous comments regarding poor performance of the LEA3 and LEA4 adapters regarding AF no eye AF and no video AF. These shortcomings are real "deal breakers".

 

Sony, where is the LEA5? The A-mount adapter that gives ALL the features of native FE lenses to Sony A-mount lenses??



#30 geetee1972

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 09:34 PM

Sony, where is the LEA5? The A-mount adapter that gives ALL the features of native FE lenses to Sony A-mount lenses??

Well it's been released but just not by Sony. By Sigma. OK I know it will only work with Sigma and Canon mount Sigma lenses (how ironic is that?) but they're showing it can be done, which really does beg the question of Sony as to where their version is.


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#31 Sator

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 05:26 AM

I am beginning to see things differently.

 

The big question is what the point of full frame E mount really is. The reason for asking this is that the only basis for why the a7 series is more compact is because they have hitherto been crippling the speed of the lenses to make them smaller, and by making the batteries too small. One of the key attractions of full frame is that it gets you shallower depth of field, but that advantage is lost if the lenses are 3/4-1 stop slower than APS-C mirrorless and full frame DSLR lenses. Now Sony have released these E mount f/2.8 zooms, and the combination of lens-body makes them BIGGER than their DSLR equivalents. There's no longer any point to even trying to make serious professional grade full frame mirrorless bodies smaller, because it just ends up looking odd and imbalanced when the body is dwarfed by elephantine fast professional grade E mount lenses.

 

Sony might as well make an a9 with a body similar in size to a DSLR.

 

At which point, the question becomes what the point of full frame mirrorless really is for the professional shooter. The only advantage FF mirrorless retains over a DSLR is live exposure preview, which DSLT A mounts have anyway. Some will point out the fact that FF E mount has IBIS, but that won't help you shoot sports and wildlife, where lens speed matters more. In many ways, the A mount is superior in terms of its autofocus capacities and frame rate, while surrendering nothing in terms of size advantage to professional grade E mount systems when shooting with professional fast lenses. In fact, when shooting with fast lenses, A mount further has an advantage over E mount in terms of compactness once the lens size is taken into account.

 

It seems that full frame mirrorless may only be a novelty fad for enthusiasts walking around with slow "quasi-pancake" lenses.

 

The reason Sony are bringing out an a99II rather than an a9 is probably because this harsh reality has dawned on them. It is because, in a sense, E mount mirrorless full frame is actually merely an enthusiast driven fad with limited prospects of making long term inroads into the professional market. If Sony want to genuinely challenge Canon and Nikon in the professional segment of the market, they are better off doing it with A mount. 

 

Sony had better get the a99II out right NOW, or else they are going to be left out of the party and forgotten come the Olympics. Nikon and Canon have managed to bring out the D5 and the 1DXII. But Sony is nowhere to be seen, in what is a total PR disaster for them when it comes to using this opportunity to make a meaningful impact on the professional market. Even if they announce the a99II in June, that is too little too late, since the Olympics are in August. Better luck in the 2020 Olympic year. I hope Sony has learnt from this fiasco. 


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#32 D700

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 12:00 PM

...Nikon and Canon have managed to bring out the D5 and the 1DXII. But Sony is nowhere to be seen, in what is a total PR disaster for them when it comes to using this opportunity to make a meaningful impact on the professional market. Even if they announce the a99II in June, that is too little too late, since the Olympics are in August. Better luck in the 2020 Olympic year. I hope Sony has learnt from this fiasco. 

 

Sony is and was never really a comptitor for Canon and Nikon.

So an announcement of any Sony A-Mount Kamera has nothing to do with the olympic games ...



#33 D700

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 12:03 PM

Actually Sigma have stopped making A-mount lenses (you won't see any new releases from Sigma)...

 

They don't need anymore!

With the new MC-11 Adapter E-Mount customer's can buy EF Models; that seems to be the strategy.

Sigma shareholdes don't care about revenues from few A-Mount lenses.



#34 Sator

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 01:53 PM

Minolta (now Sony) most definitely was a competitor to Canon and Nikon. To say that Sony is blissfully contented to forever play second or third fiddle to other manufacturers rather than trying to increase market share, investor return and capital dominance is like saying that Sony is a non-profit organisation that exists purely to selflessly indulge in their love of the art of photography. 



#35 delewin

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 09:13 PM

Ha Ha :) I strongly agree with you Sator. Sony is in it for the long term and wants to be number one in Photography across the whole spectrum. 

 

I feel Sony is treating its A mount user base with a disregard and even really just ignoring them in the hope they will dump all the many thousands of dollars spent on Sony A mount lenses to again reinvest in many more thousands of dollars in FE mount lenses.

 

The only real question is: Is Sony going to build an FE adaptor for its A mount lenses like Sigma has?

 

Sony's silence is very telling.:angry: :(

 

I really want to be proved wrong! (In 2016 and not in 2020)


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#36 Sator

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 01:57 AM

And remember, Minolta did once become number one across the whole spectrum. Sony has all the potential be Minolta's second coming. 

 

To be honest, it has suddenly dawned on me that Sony is not only doing itself a gross disservice by failing to look after its base of A mount users, thereby creating a PR disaster, but it is committing suicide. Sony have severely underestimated the potential of the A mount DSLT system. Not only is the lens line up for A mount extremely mature and of high quality, but there is untapped potential for extremely fast autofocus, and frame rates that could potentially surpass that of their DSLR rivals—because the DSLT mirror does not have to move! An A mount rival to the 1DXII and 5D could have been something to marvel at. People say that the autofocus on the a7RII is DSLR-like but imagine what they could have achieved if they had put it into an A mount body instead: it would have been even better. It would be better to say that the Sony autofocus technology is being wasted on mirrorless cameras.

 

Sony have barked up the wrong tree by going down a dead end path of pushing mirrorless full frame as a more compact alternative. Well, here is the a7RII vs a99 with an 85mm f/1.4 lens mounted on both of them:

 

http://j.mp/1PnN90v

 

The shorter flange distance makes the body smaller, but it is just give and take, since the lens ends up bigger as a result. The net result is a size disadvantage. Mirrorless full frame is not more compact/portable, but, on the contrary it is larger and more bulky. Add an adapter in there and it is even worse. I own plenty of adapters for my Sony (I probably own more than you), but they are fiddly and annoying little things: another pair of lens caps to misplace, or else you accidentally take the wrong adapter with you (whoops). Not to mention the corner image degradation at shorter focal lengths due to the short flange distance of the E mount causing the light to hit the sensor at too steep an angle, something that is made even worse by IBIS because the sensor moves around on the E mount, which was originally an APS-C mount meaning that it has too narrow a mount diameter to take IBIS without compromising corner IQ. A mount is a technically superior dedicated full frame mount design. Worst of all there is the loss of full autofocus functionality with adapters. Adapters are hardly the cure all they are touted to be. 

 

It is often asked what the point of A mount is now that the E mount mirrorless system looks more mature. But it is actually the wrong way around. The real question is what the point of E mount full frame mirrorless is. I would say there is none...it is just a novelty gimmick and a pointless fad (I had to buy an a7II to learn that the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence).

 

A mount is the real deal. If Sony kills it off, they will be committing suicide. They would be better off long term if they promptly killed off the full frame E mount, which might be selling well for the moment on the wave of lots of advertising generated hype, but the technical shortcomings of its optical foundations will eventually catch up with it. They could then incorporate Z shift into A mount bodies to make the transition from E mount far more painless.



#37 D700

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 06:03 AM

...

A mount is the real deal. If Sony kills it off, they will be committing suicide...

 

 

A-Mount is dead!

The market for big mirror cameras (DSLR/SLT) is owned by Canon and Nikon!

These customers are interested in Sony, yes, but interested in modern E-Mount technology.

They will never switch to A-Mount, no reason why.

And this market is shrinking too - Why should Sony invest in a dead end street :o

Nothing but a waste of R&D capital that is better invested in the future = E-Mount.

Fortunately it's obvoius that Sony thinks and acts like this B)


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#38 delewin

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 09:08 AM

Hi Sator, I have looked at your link and have to agree with you regarding total size package A7r mk2 plus native FE lenses are longer and possibly heavier than the equivalent A99 plus native A mount lenses.

 

But in terms of grabbing market share, Sony is not interested in its existing A mount user base, it is focusing all its efforts on converting Canon and now Nikon lens owners to purchase its FE mount FF bodies such as the A7r mk2 & A7s mk2. 

 

That way the "new" converts can use their existing lenses (with some limitations) and in future Sony expects them to purchase native FE FF lenses in the future.

 

It is all about increasing market share, not about existing customer care as numerous "tales of woe" on this forum and elsewhere testify.

 

Sator, I agree with you regarding the suitability of the A99 SLT design to easily exceed the capabilities of both Canon and Nikon best DSLRs.

 

But as I stated earlier, Sony is after "new" customers and unfortunately for the existing A mount customer base, we miss out.

 

It seems we have to "put up" with it.

 

That does not mean we have to "shut up" with it.

 

Put plainly I believe all Amount user have been "shelved" by Sony.

 

I look forward to being wrong, but from where I stand now, I do not believe I am wrong.:angry:


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#39 molan

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Posted 29 March 2016 - 08:20 AM

They don't need anymore!

With the new MC-11 Adapter E-Mount customer's can buy EF Models; that seems to be the strategy.

Sigma shareholdes don't care about revenues from few A-Mount lenses.

 

I agree, that's clearly the case and I suspect Tamron will do the same within a reasonable time-frame.



#40 molan

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Posted 29 March 2016 - 08:26 AM

I am beginning to see things differently.

 

The big question is what the point of full frame E mount really is. The reason for asking this is that the only basis for why the a7 series is more compact is because they have hitherto been crippling the speed of the lenses to make them smaller, and by making the batteries too small. One of the key attractions of full frame is that it gets you shallower depth of field, but that advantage is lost if the lenses are 3/4-1 stop slower than APS-C mirrorless and full frame DSLR lenses. Now Sony have released these E mount f/2.8 zooms, and the combination of lens-body makes them BIGGER than their DSLR equivalents. There's no longer any point to even trying to make serious professional grade full frame mirrorless bodies smaller, because it just ends up looking odd and imbalanced when the body is dwarfed by elephantine fast professional grade E mount lenses.

 

Sony might as well make an a9 with a body similar in size to a DSLR.

 

At which point, the question becomes what the point of full frame mirrorless really is for the professional shooter. The only advantage FF mirrorless retains over a DSLR is live exposure preview, which DSLT A mounts have anyway. Some will point out the fact that FF E mount has IBIS, but that won't help you shoot sports and wildlife, where lens speed matters more. In many ways, the A mount is superior in terms of its autofocus capacities and frame rate, while surrendering nothing in terms of size advantage to professional grade E mount systems when shooting with professional fast lenses. In fact, when shooting with fast lenses, A mount further has an advantage over E mount in terms of compactness once the lens size is taken into account.

 

It seems that full frame mirrorless may only be a novelty fad for enthusiasts walking around with slow "quasi-pancake" lenses.

 

The reason Sony are bringing out an a99II rather than an a9 is probably because this harsh reality has dawned on them. It is because, in a sense, E mount mirrorless full frame is actually merely an enthusiast driven fad with limited prospects of making long term inroads into the professional market. If Sony want to genuinely challenge Canon and Nikon in the professional segment of the market, they are better off doing it with A mount. 

 

Sony had better get the a99II out right NOW, or else they are going to be left out of the party and forgotten come the Olympics. Nikon and Canon have managed to bring out the D5 and the 1DXII. But Sony is nowhere to be seen, in what is a total PR disaster for them when it comes to using this opportunity to make a meaningful impact on the professional market. Even if they announce the a99II in June, that is too little too late, since the Olympics are in August. Better luck in the 2020 Olympic year. I hope Sony has learnt from this fiasco. 

 

I couldn't disagree more with you if I tried.

 

Canikon have the dSLR marked and they will keep it, Sony realises they can't compete in the pro marked - Sony would need pro service worldwide, but only E-mount have an emerging pro service and it's limited and only in some countries.

 

The key point of E-mount is no longer size, but IQ and features, but then again there is no way around size when you when you want fast zooms.

 

The E-mount most compelling feature for new users is adapters, yes, to be able to reuses existing lenses on the new E-mount camera is the key for any sales - since Sony can only hope to be the preferred second brand for dual systems for professionals.


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