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Batis 85mm Conspiracy Theory?


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This is just fun speculation, not based on any evidence, but . . . 

 

What if Sony and Zeiss colluded to delay widespread release of the Batis 85mm until the G-Master 85 was announced?  There's some logic behind this.  Sony and Zeiss enjoy a partnership where what's good for one is also good for the other, so: 

 

1.  If Sony decided to pull the trigger on the GM 85 lens after Zeiss had already announced the Batis, Sony could rightfully fear that the in the interval between the release of the Batis and the release of the GM 85, everybody who wanted an 85mm lens would have purchased the Batis. 

 

2.  This would naturally reduce the demand for the GM 85. 

 

3.  Customers who bought the Batis might later regret their decision, and express anger at Sony for foisting a superior (allegedly) product on the market only months after they'd bought their Batis. 

 

4.  Delaying widespread release (hey, I've already got mine, but I ordered way back in July) would therefore allow the products to compete on their merits, and;

 

5.  With the market still relatively wide open, consumers would be able to make an educated choice of which lens to buy, which is ultimately better for everybody.

 

What do you guys think?  Makes sense, right?  Again, I just pulled this out of my ass - it's total speculation. 

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I always got the feeling, especially from the Zeiss Batis marketing effort, that these lenses are not aimed at the same customers. And really, aside from the focal length, there is not much in common. My feeling is that these GM lenses are aimed at converting DSLR users, where as the Batis is more aimed at the Mirrorless users.

 

Anyway, Zeiss did quite a bit of damage to their brand with the Batis delay, I don't imagine they wanted to do that on purpose. 

 

I find the price difference between the two quite interesting, I wonder which will be technically a better lens? Even the Milvus is on par with the GM 85 in price, so one has to wonder which of these three is the "best" optically. Depending on what you need, it could be an interesting choice to make.

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OK, so now i'm confused. There are a number of lenses that cover this focal length in the Sony line-up: 

 

- FE 85mm f/1.4G ($1798) 

- FE 90mm f/2.8 Macro G OSS ($1098) 

- Zeiss Batis 85mm f/1.8 ($1199) 

- Sony 85mm f/2.8 A-Mount ($274) + adapter

- Sony 85mm f/1.4 Zeiss Planar T* A-Mount ($1698) + adapter

- Mitakon 85mm f/1.2 ($729) 

- Samyang/Rokinon 85mm f/1.4 AS IF UMC ($269)

- Rokinon Xeen 85mm T/1.5 Cine ($2145) 

 

That is: 8 lenses covering the same focal distance. Five of which are made by Sony/Zeiss. 

 

If we are referring to high end 85mm primes only, we can remove the A-Mount 85 f/2.8 and the 90 f/2.8 Macro from that list. That still leaves us with six lenses, with four of them made by Sony/Zeiss. 

 

Coming from the Canon world, we only have TWO 85mm primes. A cheap 85/1.8 prime, and a high end 85/1.2L prime. The market is very clear. In the Sony world, choice abounds - and they are all roughly the same price! 

 

Why is Sony expending effort to release so many lenses which are roughly similar? Why not fill a hole in the lens line-up, e.g. there is no affordable native E-mount 50/1.4 (which both Canon and Nikon have)? 

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OK, so now i'm confused. There are a number of lenses that cover this focal length in the Sony line-up:

 

- FE 85mm f/1.4G ($1798)

- FE 90mm f/2.8 Macro G OSS ($1098)

- Zeiss Batis 85mm f/1.8 ($1199)

- Sony 85mm f/2.8 A-Mount ($274) + adapter

- Sony 85mm f/1.4 Zeiss Planar T* A-Mount ($1698) + adapter

- Mitakon 85mm f/1.2 ($729)

- Samyang/Rokinon 85mm f/1.4 AS IF UMC ($269)

- Rokinon Xeen 85mm T/1.5 Cine ($2145)

 

That is: 8 lenses covering the same focal distance. Five of which are made by Sony/Zeiss.

 

If we are referring to high end 85mm primes only, we can remove the A-Mount 85 f/2.8 and the 90 f/2.8 Macro from that list. That still leaves us with six lenses, with four of them made by Sony/Zeiss.

 

Coming from the Canon world, we only have TWO 85mm primes. A cheap 85/1.8 prime, and a high end 85/1.2L prime. The market is very clear. In the Sony world, choice abounds - and they are all roughly the same price!

 

Why is Sony expending effort to release so many lenses which are roughly similar? Why not fill a hole in the lens line-up, e.g. there is no affordable native E-mount 50/1.4 (which both Canon and Nikon have)?

What are you on about?

 

Canon have loads of 85mm. How can u claim Sony has more by adding third party manufacturer like zeiss and samyang and not bothered to include all the Third party manufacturer from Canon like those I just mentioned plus tamrom and sigma?

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

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I always got the feeling, especially from the Zeiss Batis marketing effort, that these lenses are not aimed at the same customers. And really, aside from the focal length, there is not much in common. My feeling is that these GM lenses are aimed at converting DSLR users, where as the Batis is more aimed at the Mirrorless users.

 

Anyway, Zeiss did quite a bit of damage to their brand with the Batis delay, I don't imagine they wanted to do that on purpose. 

 

I find the price difference between the two quite interesting, I wonder which will be technically a better lens? Even the Milvus is on par with the GM 85 in price, so one has to wonder which of these three is the "best" optically. Depending on what you need, it could be an interesting choice to make.

 

I agree - they definitely have egg on their face from this debacle.  Hopefully there will be no future releases until they're able to meet demand, not just for the backlog on the current lenses, but for the new ones too. 

 

I think a 4-way comparison between the Batis, G-Master, Milvus (sounds like a dentist's name - Dr. Milvus will see you now.), and Otus would be amazing.  Hopefully some youtuber can get access to all 4 lenses and put together something comprehensive. 

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OK, so now i'm confused. There are a number of lenses that cover this focal length in the Sony line-up: 

 

- FE 85mm f/1.4G ($1798) 

- FE 90mm f/2.8 Macro G OSS ($1098) 

- Zeiss Batis 85mm f/1.8 ($1199) 

- Sony 85mm f/2.8 A-Mount ($274) + adapter

- Sony 85mm f/1.4 Zeiss Planar T* A-Mount ($1698) + adapter

- Mitakon 85mm f/1.2 ($729) 

- Samyang/Rokinon 85mm f/1.4 AS IF UMC ($269)

- Rokinon Xeen 85mm T/1.5 Cine ($2145) 

 

That is: 8 lenses covering the same focal distance. Five of which are made by Sony/Zeiss. 

 

If we are referring to high end 85mm primes only, we can remove the A-Mount 85 f/2.8 and the 90 f/2.8 Macro from that list. That still leaves us with six lenses, with four of them made by Sony/Zeiss. 

 

Coming from the Canon world, we only have TWO 85mm primes. A cheap 85/1.8 prime, and a high end 85/1.2L prime. The market is very clear. In the Sony world, choice abounds - and they are all roughly the same price! 

 

Why is Sony expending effort to release so many lenses which are roughly similar? Why not fill a hole in the lens line-up, e.g. there is no affordable native E-mount 50/1.4 (which both Canon and Nikon have)? 

 

 

Well, I guess since Samyang's made a couple of 85's and the "easy choice" A-mount 85 is still out there, along with the very nice, but admittedly aging A-mount ZA lens that means the G-master wasn't necessary.  Thank you. Good night. 

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I think a 4-way comparison between the Batis, G-Master, Milvus (sounds like a dentist's name - Dr. Milvus will see you now.), and Otus would be amazing.  Hopefully some youtuber can get access to all 4 lenses and put together something comprehensive. 

 

 

I hope to get my hands on a Batis 85 soon, after being very happy with how the Batis 25 works. The metric which matters to me is performance against weight.

 

But I do wonder what the Milvus range has to offer, because it makes sense in a different way - specifically not an E-Mount lens, which means its somewhat future proof. Otus is the same.

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Here in Hamburg the Batis is available from time to time. You have just to enroll at one of the 4 lokal Dealers and to wait for a couple of weeks. I own meanwhile that new brother to my Batis 2,0/25 and it he makes a great job. And, not to forget: compared to the announced data of the GM  1,4/85 the Batis 85 is tiny and fits ideally my 7RII. Now I´m waiting urgently for a 2,0/135 (hopefully like the Zeiss 2,0/135 Apo) and then I´m completed.

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 Now I´m waiting urgently for a 2,0/135 (hopefully like the Zeiss 2,0/135 Apo) and then I´m completed.

 

 

same here. would prefer an AF like the a-mount Zeiss 135 f1.8. meanwhile, guess I might go for the Samyang 135 f2, which reviews quite well.

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same here. would prefer an AF like the a-mount Zeiss 135 f1.8. meanwhile, guess I might go for the Samyang 135 f2, which reviews quite well.

Yep, the samyang is a great lens (Ahem: http://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/191801539182)

 

I can't see Zeiss intentionally not selling lenses on purpose, it is a case of not putting down to malice what incompetence / apathy would explain.

 

I have the batis 85 and love it. I also have the 90mm macro, which is good, but the batis is smaller (well, shorter), has the extra stop, slightly nicer bokeh (subjectively), and I find the auto focus hunts less.

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same here. would prefer an AF like the a-mount Zeiss 135 f1.8. meanwhile, guess I might go for the Samyang 135 f2, which reviews quite well.

 

I think everybody would love to see a premium 135mm f/2 or f/1.8, either in the GM or Batis lineup.  I hope they're listening.  The day they announce it, I'll put my 135 ZA on ebay. 

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IMO, Sony is known to be a GREAT electronics maker, but not for lenses whatever they want to market it as G, GM..... all came from Minolta acquired.

I still prefer Zeiss any day aka the Zeiss Batis.

 

A lot of the A-mount lenses were derived from Minolta designs.  They've moved well beyond that now.  But that doesn't mean some of the former Minolta employees aren't still involved in R&D. 

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