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A7rii angst


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Morning, I'm new to this forum, and would very much appreciate advice from anyone in a similar camera situation. Photography is a big hobby of mine, although I've probably spent far too much on gear over the years. Anyhow, I sold a load of heavy Canon equipment (which I loved, and which gave great results, but carrying it was doing my back in), to buy a Leica Q. I've been shooting with the Leica for a week or so and love it. Maybe it's the 28mm lens and the documentary feel it seems to deliver that is so beautiful. The only drawback, is, simultaneously, that I've lost the sort of reach that I'm used to. So I'm tempted by the A7rii and the 55 1.8 EF lens as an additional camera for portraits etc. The local Sony centre can offer a couple of hundred pounds off the body. I should know my own mind on this, I realise, but has anyone on the forum fine through something similar? Is it completely bonkers to think about another camera? Apart from the ability for extra reach offered by the 55mm (and I don't see myself using any other lens), the things that matter to me are very good low iso performance, the ability to crop a fair bit whilst still maintaining subject sharpness, and delicious bokeh. Feel free to tell me I'm mad. On the other hand, I'd also be interested in stories from and, just as importantly, the final outcomes for those who've been through anything similar. Thanks.

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Hmmm - a tricky one -  it will be hard for anyone to offer advice to you as only you know your exact situation. Just a few things that spring to my mind, but this is purely from if I were in your situation:

 

You've just got rid of heavy DSLR gear to go light. You're now thinking of a second camera - is this in your "go light" plan?

You say 28mm is great for you but you also want 55mm. This is a problem with a fixed lens camera. Is there any possibility you may want another lens in the future? Longer? Shorter? Faster?

 

Option 1 - Keep your Leica and buy the A7rii and 55 1.8 lens. It is clearly an amazing camera in every respect and the 55mm is super sharp. It would easily meet your want list.

Option 2 - Just keep the Leica and crop in. I know the FOV is different when cropping as opposed to using a longer lens, but it is an option with 24MP

Option 3 - Sell/take back the Leica and get the A7rii with the 28 and 55mm lenses

 

I know you say you are really pleased with the Leica, but if I were in your position (as me) I would think I have chosen the wrong camera for my needs. Option 3 all the way for me.

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Many thanks, pilsburypie. What you say makes complete sense, of course. You're right about the Leica not being absolutely right, but it's so darn gorgeous that it's a definite keeper. I may take my SD card to the shop and take some pics with the a7rii and 55m, to see how they look and feel. Whether it's a good use of funds, of course, is an entirely different matter!

 

All the best.

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Why not a Leica M?

Beautiful to use (far superior to A7x in my opinion - especially the quintessential Leica compose/focus ritual) and a range of super lenses covering your needs.

Otherwise, yes, sell the Keica you have and invest in A7rii plus the lenses you require for you picture style.

An interesting dilemma to have!

Tim

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Guest Peter Kelly

plsburypie said "I know the FOV is different when cropping as opposed to using a longer lens..", but this isn't technically correct.

 

The field of view is dependent upon the angles, so if you use a 200mm lens and then stay in the same position and use a 50mm lens you will get exactly the same FOV after cropping, just with reduced resolution.

However, if you had used the 200mm and then moved to a quarter of the distance to achieve the same FOV with a 50mm lens the perspective will change.

 

That said, the A7Rii does offer a greater option to crop because of the higher initial resolution, so is a very useful tool to reduce the need for longer lenses (in an emergency).

 

The simple fact is, though, no matter what you have you will need to concentrate on a certain field of photography because you won't effectively have a choice. So look on it as a challenge, rather than a limitation!

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If I'm reading your last sentences, I think, you are already over the fence. You point at all the stuff, the A7RII shines.

 

I always have my A7RII with the 55/1.8 and the 28/2 with me. Well, not if I go to bed...

It's a perfect combination of a stellar camera and two nice lenses with a weight of about 1 kilo. You won't go wrong with that, but it's also an entrance to a new gear battle... :)

 

Just ask yourself: Why you sold your Canon equipment? Was the weight the only reason? And why you are not stick with the leica? Is it because of the lack of focal length versaility or do you just freaked about the gear? Do I have the money? Does your partner care about? What is he/she advice you?

And then take another month without thinking of that and just using the leica Q. It is only a week old and maybe you need some acclimation time.

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Ok - yes you are right - but you know what I mean..... having the same picture/framing, say a portrait taken with a 28mm cropped vs a 200mm, will look very different.....

plsburypie said "I know the FOV is different when cropping as opposed to using a longer lens..", but this isn't technically correct.

 

The field of view is dependent upon the angles, so if you use a 200mm lens and then stay in the same position and use a 50mm lens you will get exactly the same FOV after cropping, just with reduced resolution.

However, if you had used the 200mm and then moved to a quarter of the distance to achieve the same FOV with a 50mm lens the perspective will change.

 

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I always found Leica to be completely overrated as a system unless you were a very specific type of user (photojournalist/street photographer). For most users Leica is more a matter of branding than performance. Although they do make a good quality product there were always much better cameras and lenses out there than Leica for the money, and this is still true. Also, the rangefinder is not Leica proprietary, no-matter how hard they try to own rangefinder focusing as part of their "magic". 

 

Sony makes great sensors. They make reasonably solid cameras  - not Nikon/Canon level, but certainly as good as Panasonic and Fuji. From an ergonomics standpoint Sony's menu system is downright stupid, and the whole shooting experience suffers a little bit as they seem to not truly understand camera ergonomics. Still, the camera is satisfyingly compact and as someone who always loved shooting waist-level on medium format I have found myself using the viewfinder and articulating screen almost equally. From this single standpoint, being able to shoot in both reflex and waist-level style, the Sony Alpha series is far and above superior to everything else I have tried in the digital realm. Other cameras have movable rear screens, none of them really work right except for the Alpha series.

 

For me a camera is really just a sensor, lens-mount, and exposure button. As long as I have manual control over exposure settings and a responsive system all I care about is how well my lenses are resolved by the sensor. My lenses are what matters, and I don't use Sony lenses. As an imaging platform the Sony A7RII is unmatched in the 35mm realm (as long as you know how to work in a RAW workflow). This is the crux of the issue, if you aren't looking for image quality, or lack the ability, know-how, or time to work with the RAW data, you may want to look elsewhere.

 

Whether the somewhat clunky ergonomics will get in your way depends on where you are coming from. Coming from 4x5 and Medium format none of the ergonomics issues seem particularly important to me. Nothing takes remotely as long to set up as a 4x5 technical camera, so I can shrug off some clunkiness.

 

I LOVE using the A7RII for black and white portraits. It has performed very well for me under low-light in this capacity with 50-85mm focal lengths. If I were coming from your position I might consider an adapter and Contax G glass, or even Leica lenses if you feel that their look is what you care for.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok - yes you are right - but you know what I mean..... having the same picture/framing, say a portrait taken with a 28mm cropped vs a 200mm, will look very different.....

The only difference is in the resolution (less pixels due to cropping).

 

Apart from lens distortions (and I *don't* mean perspective) the only thing that can alter the view is the camera position. I am not considering depth of focus, you need to open up the wider lens to duplicate the 'bokeh'.

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The only difference is in the resolution (less pixels due to cropping).

 

Apart from lens distortions (and I *don't* mean perspective) the only thing that can alter the view is the camera position. I am not considering depth of focus, you need to open up the wider lens to duplicate the 'bokeh'.

 

Is there really anybody, that is working with switching to APSC to shoot in "55-mode" with his 35-lens (or any other combination)?

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ShutterFly, I am a bit perplexed by your post. You write that the 28mm lens in the Leica, and the "documentary feel" appeals to you. I understand that, obviously. But, at the same time, that was hardly out of reach of Canon shooters. So, is it the "all-in-one", light gear that appeals? In which case, you have one option, the new Sony RX1R II, which comes with a 35mm lens. The A7R II, which is your main topic, is nowhere as "small kit" as the Leica Q.

If, on the other hand, it is the "Leica experience", with quality feel, limited number of options and clean UI, the Sony is definitely not going to feel the same.

If, and it is the last of my hypotheses, you feel the IQ of the Leica, colours and all, is so superior to what you got ouf of your Canon (which one?), then the A7R II is a giant-killer, and the IQ should delight you.

That said, you haven't given us a lot to go by: what Canon gear you had and liked, what you shoot, etc...

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Shutterfly, I find myself in almost the exact same position as you, so maybe my path (and false starts) can help you. I've shot on Fuji (XPro1) for the past 3 years, but have found myself ready to make the jump to full frame (and am growing impatient with the delays around the XPro2).  

I actually purchased the Leica Q a few weeks ago, and within 5 days had sold it to a friend for almost identical reasons as you outlined. The experience of shooting with the camera was incredible, and the image quality was great (though low light suffered). But in the end, I found myself far too constrained by the 28mm focal length. So we parted ways, and while I already miss how fun it was to shoot with, I am happy with my decision (my friend who purchased it is already considering selling it as well!). 

So now I find myself wondering where to go next. I've gone to the store several times to play with the A7rii, but despite the impressive specs, I find myself completely uninspired holding that camera. Hard to explain, but if the experience of shooting Leica is what appeals to you, I think you'll find yourself with a similar feeling. To me, it feels like a computer that can take photos, not a camera ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

One other suggestion - have you looked into the Fuji x100t? My wife has it, and the image quality from that camera is superb. Honestly, its really close to what I was able to achieve from the Leica Q, not to mention the added bonus of a bit more versatile 35mm fixed lens. I'm beginning to wonder if the combination of a x100 for day-to-day, plus a heavier full frame setup of the 5D + 24-70 2.8 (which in my opinion, is the best IQ of any setup out there) for more photo-centric adventures is as close as I can get to an ideal configuration.

Hope this helps, though it seems like you've already made the decision to move on from Canon and aren't looking back.

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Thanks, everyone, for your replies to my original post. Sorry for not acknowledging them earlier. The update: I've kept the Q and I've bought an A7rii + 55 1.8. I'm trying not to think of the money involved (and am telling myself that the trade-in from the Canon gear has kind of paid for one and a half new cameras, etc.). So far, I'm very much enjoying playing with both.

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Many thanks, coops. I appreciate your mention of the Fujis. I did have an early x100 and an x-pro 1, both of which impressed me greatly. I ended up finding them quite laggy and, with some regret, moved away from Fuji. When I started this most recent search, I did have a look at the xt1 and liked it: there's something about a Fuji that just feels right in my hand. When I borrowed it for a while, it just seemed to throw up the same issues that bothered me last time. Nonetheless, the Fujis will always have a place in my heart!

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