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A-Mount Loyalists. Will you switch?


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It seems apparent that Sony's strategy is no longer to compete directly in the DSLR market with Canon and Nikon.  Their release cycles and statements strongly indicate that Sony seeks to overtake them in overall interchangeable lens camera sales by growing the mirrorless market.  In other words, Sony sees itself beating Canon and Nikon not by making a better DSLR (in a market in which the competition has decades of entrenched loyalty), but by developing the mirrorless category.  Maybe Sony was taken a bit off guard by the success of the A7 cameras, but they've definitely jumped in with both feet now.  

 

I was a loyal A-mount user, waiting, and waiting for an update to my a99.  It's still a great camera, but it's far from state-of-the-art now (my RX100M4 blows it away in video quality), and many of the lenses are in desperate need of a refresh.  Even Sigma and Tamron (save for the cheapo cropped head-scratcher of a vacation lens they just released) seem to have abandoned the mount.  The A7R2 was just too good to pass up, and the fact that I didn't have to sell all my A-mount lenses was a bonus (still using my Sigma fisheye and 500mm, and Zeiss 135 f/1.8).  

 

So, money not being an issue, why would an A-mount user not cross over to FE at this point?  I can understand wanting to maximize an investment, and riding that gear into the sunset, but if you can afford to, why not switch.  I want to try to understand the market.  No judgement.  To me, the preponderance of the evidence suggests that the A-mount will continue to take a back seat to FE, and is probably approaching the end of its life.  

 

Your thoughts? 

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I think you have brought it to the point.

From the perspective of the consumer / user, it is certainly regrettable if the SONY A-mount should not expand.

From the perspective of SONY but it is understandable that after the great success of the 7 Series with E-mount FF this line will be further expanded and thus its market share compared to Canon / Nikon are obtained.

I have consequently sold my A99V and ordered me a A7RII. My expensive A-lenses (eg 16 mm fisheye, 50 mm ZA, 135 mm and RF 500 mm) I can continue to use without any problems.

In my opinion, the E-mount is the future, which is also true for the APS-C format.

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What is actually even remotely relevant is whether or not new users would even want an A mount camera as opposed to the fantastic E mount ones, as of course it is obvious that previous users of A mount cameras are well catered for already through adaption, and by all the fantastic features of the new massively improved system.

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What is actually even remotely relevant is whether or not new users would even want an A mount camera as opposed to the fantastic E mount ones, as of course it is obvious that previous users of A mount cameras are well catered for already through adaption, and by all the fantastic features of the new massively improved system.

A-mount offers absolutely no avenue for new users.  Why on Earth would anyone build a new system around it?  The A77ii is out of manufacture, and possibly the a99 too, and there are no entry-level offerings.  I started from the a55, then a77, then a99, and in parallel got my wife the a33, a65 and a77ii (Jeezus that's 6 bodies I've been through, 7 if you count the two a99's that I've owned).  But now, if you're moving into your first DSLR, there is NO WAY you'd go with A-mount.  You'd go to a Canon or a Nikon, or if you like the look of the mirrorless, the A6000

 

Seems to me Sony's only market for A-mount is loyalists, but while they're not coming out and saying it directly, it kind of looks like they're nudging them towards the FE mount and adapters.  

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Hi, I am a new member, Nex7, Alpha77 and several lenses including Zeisses. Currently waiting for the Alpha 7000 or whatever it will be called.

Basically I agree but to me there is still one problem with the A7 Series. When doing macro I have always focussed with the diaphragm fully open, to me this is normal and I have been doing this since the '70s when I was using Nikon - often with double cable releases etc.

By focussing fully open it is easier to get the focus correct, e.g. exactly on the eye of an insect. For this kind of work I am using small apertures, flash, I am hand holding and of course focussing is manual - just by moving the camera.

In sunlight the Nex7 stops down quite a bit so focusing is not that accurate, the A77 is much better. I have played with my son's A7R and it is better than the Nex7 but still not what I want.

To me, and some others on the internet, this would be a relatively simple software update. Wonder why Sony does not do this? I am sure there are better professional photographers who would appreciate this as well so the lack of this feature may well stop some photographers switching to Sony.

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A-mount offers absolutely no avenue for new users.  Why on Earth would anyone build a new system around it?  The A77ii is out of manufacture, and possibly the a99 too, and there are no entry-level offerings.  I started from the a55, then a77, then a99, and in parallel got my wife the a33, a65 and a77ii (Jeezus that's 6 bodies I've been through, 7 if you count the two a99's that I've owned).  But now, if you're moving into your first DSLR, there is NO WAY you'd go with A-mount.  You'd go to a Canon or a Nikon, or if you like the look of the mirrorless, the A6000

 

Seems to me Sony's only market for A-mount is loyalists, but while they're not coming out and saying it directly, it kind of looks like they're nudging them towards the FE mount and adapters.  

This is SARS overiding opinion too sadly:

http://www.sonyalphaforum.com/topic/817-i-have-a-dream-mirorless-a-mount-with-on-sensor-pdaf/

see comment here about A mount bodies and E mount.

However, you are suggesting new users of Sony would be DSLR only whereas the switch could be considered TO mirrorless implicitly and not in competition at all, because that competition is losing all by itself and Sony's new system sells very well. Simple economics and technological development for best usage for the photography users. Sony E mount also has all the best new system lenses by definition for a new user to build a camera system upon. If you are building on only legacy systems and not considering new factors like contemporary Sony/Zeiss glass which has proven so worthy of consideration, present third party lens mount irrelevance once considered by way of E mount adaption and the dying out as you say of A mount support and interest to a chilling near absolute zero as a result, oh you had this argument forever already...

'or if you like the look of mirrorless'

it has superior function of course and what does your DLSR have anyway? a different look and ALL the real functionality that new users seemingly no longer crave to create real demand for such a body exterior and an increasingly irrelevant classification to Sony cams with their EVF, interoperability with other mounts, backward compatibility with A mount, fantastic lenses from Zeiss in most all mounts available and best glass therefore ripe for the picking, and now leica too more completely et al?

Can't you let the images you produce convince whoever it is as un informed as you have a pretence of being as to what a term really means and why you couldn't equally prove mirrorless cam vital by just using it without only proven unfounded presumptions?

The results from Sony cams can be compared on simple criteria and may or may not outperform all other systems and for cost. The more complete lens selection of all the objectively best glass seals the deal.

Ergonomics are a fine thing but Sony cams have very good function now. I personally want better manual operation of lenses next, not some investment in a misrepresentation of a term to make older users feel less depreciated when rejecting it until they MUST either use it or themselves switch, go ahead, switch now and leave Sony to E mount users and new users who want the best system. Put your counter competitive funding for postmodern materialistic camera values to use in a kickstarter campaign for a bulky plastic A mount styled cover and battery pack with fixed A mount only and the word professional emblazened somewhere conspicuous. You could easily wrap it around the 'wrong' looking APSC mount E mount camera you suggest but converted thus for no more cost than a new such A mount body and even greater function possibly.

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It seems apparent that Sony's strategy is no longer to compete directly in the DSLR market with Canon and Nikon.  Their release cycles and statements strongly indicate that Sony seeks to overtake them in overall interchangeable lens camera sales by growing the mirrorless market.  In other words, Sony sees itself beating Canon and Nikon not by making a better DSLR (in a market in which the competition has decades of entrenched loyalty), but by developing the mirrorless category.  Maybe Sony was taken a bit off guard by the success of the A7 cameras, but they've definitely jumped in with both feet now.  

 

I was a loyal A-mount user, waiting, and waiting for an update to my a99.  It's still a great camera, but it's far from state-of-the-art now (my RX100M4 blows it away in video quality), and many of the lenses are in desperate need of a refresh.  Even Sigma and Tamron (save for the cheapo cropped head-scratcher of a vacation lens they just released) seem to have abandoned the mount.  The A7R2 was just too good to pass up, and the fact that I didn't have to sell all my A-mount lenses was a bonus (still using my Sigma fisheye and 500mm, and Zeiss 135 f/1.8).  

 

So, money not being an issue, why would an A-mount user not cross over to FE at this point?  I can understand wanting to maximize an investment, and riding that gear into the sunset, but if you can afford to, why not switch.  I want to try to understand the market.  No judgement.  To me, the preponderance of the evidence suggests that the A-mount will continue to take a back seat to FE, and is probably approaching the end of its life.  

 

Your thoughts? 

 

 

E-Mount is not an alternative to A-Mount ...

I got almost new A58 for about $200, what I can get in the E-Mount for that? A castrated A3000/A3500 with UNUSABLE autofocus and lack of most buttons that are available on A58?

Compare the prices on the lenses, 35/1.8 for example, more the two times more in the E-Mount world for the same lens ... and a lot of lenses are non existent for E-Mount, Tamron 16-300 ... Sigma 18-250 ... Sigma 18-35/1.8 ... ANY 85/1.4 ... Sigma 30/1.4 ... no fast zoom like SSM 16-50/2.8 ... no fast 70-200/2.8 zoom ... the APSC E-Mount system is a lens joke currently ...

 

 

 

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I agree with "nib" on the lens expense. Besides I"m where I want to be lens wise. Still using a65, don't need larger sensor. Really can't go past iso 1600, but works for now. It griped me when Minolta went to auto focus in '85. I was still using SRT's and x's until 2005, then 7D and a65 in 2011. Slow to change.

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I shoot both. A7ii with IBIS was enough to get me back to FF. LA-EA4 lets me continue to shoot my FF A mount glass. I own NO FF E mount lenses. Too damn expensive for what they are, and I don't need to throw money around to feel good. It's a dirty little secret that the better Minolta glass (primes,Gs) resolve around 50mp, and most all will do 24mp+. Let Otus and Lenscore go for 100mp, but we're not going be able to actually see that in a camera for years, and years. New coatings are better, they provide better contrast that gives the illusion of better sharpness. Tweak the contrast in post to get the results without dropping thousands in glass. For me, the A65 lives with a 400mm lens for birds and critters, a job it excels at. The A7ii currently does the rest using A mount glass.

 

Expect we'll see the A7 series technology in A mount cameras. Sony's after FF dominance, and part of peeling users away from Canon and Nikon is producing some FF cameras with big bodies. The A7Rii sensor focusing seems good enough that I'd bet that everything is mirrorless from here on out. That lets Sony sell FF cameras for a lot less than CaNikon. Another piece is letting them bring their glass with them, thus Metabones et al are an important piece of the FF puzzle.

 

That said, I do really enjoy having cheap E mount adapters for my old MF glass. You can do it with A mount, but it's less convenient. Kodachrome was pretty unforgiving, so a lot of that old glass is optically very good (see coatings above). Peaking and magnification make MF focusing quick and easy. Also, many APS-C zooms will do very nicely on FF at their longer end. Vignetting often goes away as you zoom in, so you can move to FF without necessarily having to dump your APS-C glass. Even zoomed out, the ones I've tested have a larger image circle (about 30mm) than the APS-C compatibility slice of the sensor.

 

I don't believe E/A is either/or. You can mix and match. Keep your glass and use the body that fits the situation.

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I agree that it seems logical for Sony at this point just to keep working on the E mount system, that is their best hope of expanding their market. However, as an A mount user that system still has limitations which for me make the prospect of adapting my A mount glass to that body undesirable.

 

If current A99 users had the choice between an A7rII and an A99II that featured the same sensor and OSPDAF system I am sure that the vast majority would go for the A99II. When using fast/long glass the superior ergonomics of an A99 body by far outweigh the negligible size and weight difference when adapting these same lenses onto an A7RII with an adapter.

 

The A99 has the best grip (for my hand) of any camera -better than 5D, better than D800, it has all the functions you need accessible with a dedicated button, it uses a better battery, has dual card slots, a dedicated remote shutter port that isn't shared with other functions, a pc sync port and a screen with superior articulation. Basically all of the features that make a difference for people that shoot a lot and use their cameras in a lot of different ways. And let us not forget the A99's secret bonus feature, less ND power needed when doing long exposure photography!!!

 

The ONLY thing on the A7RII that I am envious of is the sensor. If they put the same sensor into an A99 and didn't change anything else (not even expand the AF module!) I would still buy that over the A7RII. I may yet buy the A7RII and attempt a sensor transplant into my A99. If an A9 appears with all of these superior body features, Sony's best sensor and is E mount, then I will accept that A mount is dead and buy that camera. I am hopeful that Sony is working on solving the issues with adapting A mount lenses before they do this.

 

If you are thinking I am some old school SLR stick in the mud, you are wrong. I came to Sony through the NEX-7 and E mount, I love the IQ of that camera and still use it, but I always prefer the ergonomics and combination of sophistication and flow that the A99 gives me when shooting. 

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To my mind, there are just two things that A mount is superior in 1) Phase detect AF 2) Large form factor.  I still think a replacement for the A99 is necessary to handle all those legacy lenses (screw drive) which E mount even with adapter does not handle that well.  Screw drive lenses and larger lenses, particularly teles, is what A mount does well.  I still believe Sony will evolve the A mount line although an A99 replacement is probably not due until later this year or next.  If it does not arrive by the end of 2016, then the likelihood of a replacement will diminish reasonably fast.  Whilst it is reasonable for Sony not to disclose if a replacement will come and when it will arrive, I hope that when the time comes, Sony has the balls to categorically state that A mount is dead - no further development in the line - ever.  Then it makes it much easier on all us A mount users to decide what we are going to do - if anything.  Wouldn't it be something to have the last A mount camera ever and keep it as a nostalgic memento to photographic history.  Perhaps in 200 years from now, the A99 will be worth something as an antique - as long as it still shoots.

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Regards the particular use of Sony A7Rii camera with Lecia lenses in light of the recent 'myth busting'

I think that from a photography point of view, a practical and aesthetic one rather than purely technical one there could be many reasons one might now happily choose glass hitherto effected by annoying colour vignetting and use A7Rii as a system camera with m mount lenses as a speciality  :D

 

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/55098598

~Thin filter conversion for the A7R sensor (improve corners!)~

'While it would improve performance with lenses designed for thin (or zero-thickness, like film) stacks, it would impair lenses designed for thick stacks.'

Jim Kasson

~~~

Tests were done using converted A7R cameras by the following:

http://kolarivision.com/

I think that for some of us, such a sensor conversion may be great for our lens selection and for use with the best sensor and camera available for them thus :D

I hope this can be done on the A7Rii and all future Sony cams too, and despite image stabilizer functionality having been introduced etc

Now we don't have that horrible colour vignetting to edit out in processing which for me negated use of and acquisition of those afflicted lenses substantially otherwise, and in the case of Leica's own cameras those same issues may not be as well addressed due to the relevant improvement BSI produces in our Sony sensor camera regards, as reported~ and without any in camera processing and presumably with less noise produced for light gleaned from the evident sensor based reduction of that vignetting.

 

Digiloyd himself says a camera may be bought on the back of a single great lens, and as such, I would personally not think twice about getting a second Sony camera with the differential modification for use of that ideal lens with my favourite camera designs with in body stabilizer and 42MP bsi sensor etc, and not much lost on even some E mount native lenses used on it in a pinch :D

Not even with respect to the overall cost of Leica lenses which itself is now paradoxically being considered seemingly purely economically by the main exponent of them on purported technical and functional grounds XD

(because we have no objective CONTRARY evidence from him of an overall improvement of such lenses in use on Leica cameras and I even query the basis of the assumed difference on back of what seem to be calculated figures chosen for the purpose and yet no proof of positive difference or safety, leaving just the presumed invalidation of use of those M mount lenses on Sony cameras to ANY improvement of effect from a now dated Leica camera costing more than even some of the lenses :I a 'fact' which I would dispute strongly, not least on the back of potential massive improvement by bsi sensor with glass removed or replaced for purpose from any other format, including Leica's own non economical digital camera solutions ':I or when considering the cost to actual quality differential of some expensive glass and features of it in any case, notably regards Leica ones: for which I simply demand better lenses for practical use, and the more affordable of course, always!)

This is Lloyd's chosen piece de resistance against the 'new system on the block' and the real photographic resistance must be made in proving that the ideal camera for image quality and functionality is indeed the very one he has attempted to stifle the enthusiasm for with his pernicious interjections and trivializing of positive factors and developments including his not showing the respect and passive acknowledgement due for what is now overall a most popular system at large and forming the potential for some of the greatest 35mm camera lenses available for still photography to be used brilliantly on it, and somewhat as they and by extension perhaps exactly how all 35mm camera lenses were intended to be, ideally and regards a travelling camera system. A resistance formed by the photographers who use the equipment and buy it for purpose, themselves :)

I would like the ZM 35mm 1.4, 28mm 1.4 and 21mm 1.4 obviously, and as there is nothing else like them, could I afford and justify the expense in future, and all in my Sony family system together :D

There would already be economy in any case paradoxically, in buying the ZM 35mm 1.4 and a Sony A7Rii with conversion for thin sensor glass~ skipping Leica all together, and of course thus perhaps also the best results obtainable until the Otus 35mm 1.4 we all eagerly await the sight of :D

Anything to avoid or stem the flow of technological changes and advancement for the better of all of us it would seem, and somehow now evidently the worse for those caught up in the aftermath of them and caught off guard as I said they would be, we already advanced remember, they had to pretend, as now Lloyd will regards the very real implications of the superior Leica mount camera potential he setup in his final feint~ now demythologized hahaha

If only we could now argue about the best shooting practices and basic parameters of it and suited equipment design to better effect, instead of the continual scientific obfuscation of trivial matters even to the worse of them etc

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  • 3 weeks later...

This was so far a really interesting reading...

 

- First of all I am really surpised that no one is angry about Sony and their A-Mount strategy and communication about future development or not.

 

- Reading that all A-Mounts can easily adapt to a 3000$ body reminds me to some old Monty Python jokes.

 

- For me it seems that Sony lost the battle against Nikon and Canon. Not for the pros, but for a wide base of users. No one can recommend Sony E-Mount for beginners compared to Nikon or Canon.

 

To answer the topic question. Yes, I will switch. But not to Sony to thank them for their "user friendly" strategy.

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This was so far a really interesting reading...

 

- First of all I am really surpised that no one is angry about Sony and their A-Mount strategy and communication about future development or not.

 

- Reading that all A-Mounts can easily adapt to a 3000$ body reminds me to some old Monty Python jokes.

 

- For me it seems that Sony lost the battle against Nikon and Canon. Not for the pros, but for a wide base of users. No one can recommend Sony E-Mount for beginners compared to Nikon or Canon.

 

To answer the topic question. Yes, I will switch. But not to Sony to thank them for their "user friendly" strategy.

Why can't anybody recommend Sony E-mount for beginners?  It works just like any other camera, from a point and shoot to something a little more advanced.

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I am one of many Alpha lens users that have spent many thousands of dollars on good quality A mount FF lenses.

 

Am I angry that Sony has not released an upgrade to the A99? In short, I'm not angry, but I am very frustrated.

 

I started off with an A55V and moved to an A77V. I had been buying FF Zeiss glass in readiness to move to the replacement of the A99. I, along with everyone else, have been waiting a long time.

 

If the Sony is not going to actively support the A mount users, then it is Sony's interest to make it clear. That way, i would commit to the A7rmk2 and not hang on and on in the hope for something in the future.

 

I see the A7rmk2 and like what I see, but having to add an adaptor so I can use my lenses is a put-off.

 

I would need to see more reviews of the A7rmk2 with the LA-EA3 adaptor using a range of A mount glass. (preferably Zeiss glass)

 

With all the users of the A7rmk2 there must be a goodly number that have Alpha mount glass. Can a few of you kindly add reviews to SAR and give us the benefit of your real experiences.

 

EG:

A7rmk2 and LA-EA3 with:

 

SAL20F20Z

SAL1635Z

SAL2470Z

SAL70200G2

SAL70400G2

SAL135F28

 

Apologies for only picking the lenses I own, but I am really interested in working out if it is worthwhile moving to the A7rmk2 or die waiting for something that will just not come. :(

 

 

My 5 cents.

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Hi, I am a new member, Nex7, Alpha77 and several lenses including Zeisses. Currently waiting for the Alpha 7000 or whatever it will be called.

Basically I agree but to me there is still one problem with the A7 Series. When doing macro I have always focussed with the diaphragm fully open, to me this is normal and I have been doing this since the '70s when I was using Nikon - often with double cable releases etc.

By focussing fully open it is easier to get the focus correct, e.g. exactly on the eye of an insect. For this kind of work I am using small apertures, flash, I am hand holding and of course focussing is manual - just by moving the camera.

In sunlight the Nex7 stops down quite a bit so focusing is not that accurate, the A77 is much better. I have played with my son's A7R and it is better than the Nex7 but still not what I want.

To me, and some others on the internet, this would be a relatively simple software update. Wonder why Sony does not do this? I am sure there are better professional photographers who would appreciate this as well so the lack of this feature may well stop some photographers switching to Sony.

My Nex 7, Nex 6, A 6000, A7M2 don't behave like that.

I have set so many non-defaults into 4 different sets of

menus that I can't remember where to fix that .... but it

can be remedied via the menus.

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  • 2 weeks later...

One thing I have not heard is the size of the E-mount when using larger lenses does not work as well as the A-mount bodies. I have compared both while taking sports and hands down prefer the A-mount body. Also there is room for "more" on the larger bodies. ie. dual card slots, larger batteries, head phone jacks, more customs button options. Sony needs to continue to support the A-mount to offer a complete line of options to all photographers. I have not met a serious photographer that does not have and use multiple cameras for all sorts of reasons. Do you see car companies following a one car fits all approach? No that would be ridiculous. I would think if Sony put all it's new tech into a A-mount body along with the fantastic E-mount platform they would see many more Canon and Nikon converts.  

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  • 5 years later...

6 years on...

It's interesting to read this thread. I'm currently debating whether to trade in my old A99 for an A7Rii. 

The debate for me is similar to the thread, except that I can get an A7Rii at a reduced price, £500 off, and a new LA-EA5 adapter thrown in if I trade-in the A99 making the price within my range.

I hear mixed reviews as to how effective the adapter is for non-native lenses (I have a couple of Tamron USD zoom lenses and a Sigma Art 50mm prime). But I like the idea have having eye AF, and higher resolution.

I think I'd miss being able to turn the LCD so it is hidden and protected, the deep comfortable grip and the GPS which makes it easy to work out where each picture is taken.

As for support/development of A mount, it's death is taking longer than thought, with the improvements to the A99 in the A99ii model and the lenses still available new and used.

The story of Sony cameras seems to imitate that of Apple - There was always a small but loyal band of users, then a key innovation and it is fast becoming a major player.

Edited by thebeardedgroundsman
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  • 4 weeks later...

I agonised long and hard about replacing my A77ii with E-mount, having been an A-mount user since my first A100 many many moons ago, and during which time I had accumulated a few good A-mount lenses. I spoke with Sony a few times and was getting pissed off by their point blank refusal to confirm or deny the death of A-mount bodies, and I have to admit that their lack of any apparent concern for the investment made in glass by existing users was putting me off continuing with the brand. 

However, I have now taken the plunge with an A7iii and am delighted with it - the LA-EA5 adapter gives me full autofocus compatibility for my Tamron 150-600 and my APS-C 16-50 f2.8, although manual focus only for my older full-frame 70-200 and a 90mm macro as neither the A7iii nor the adapter support screw-drive focusing. The only lens I've bought for the A7iii is a used FE Sony Zeiss 24-70mm f4 (to replace the 16-50) and so the migration cost in lenses (including the LA-EA5) has been relatively minimal. Perhaps if it was going to be much more expensive then I would have been more inclined to look at other makes.

In summary, for anyone considering migrating A to E, the improvement in image quality, high ISO and HDR capability, auto focussing etc make it a no-brainer. Perhaps like me your decision will hinge on the potential cost of replacing your glass.

 


PS for the beardedgroundsman: My Tamron G02 150-600 USD autofocuses superbly through the la-ea5. That was my big worry but I needn't have.

Edited by alasdairmac
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Thanks Alisdairmac.

I'm still dragging my feet, having spent my budget on quality A-mount used lenses recently while they're available and the dealers are still buying mid-range glass. eg; replacing my Sigma 170-600 for Sony 70-400 G SSM2 and a 1.4x teleconverter.

A zeiss sonner 28-70 and Tamron 15-30 SP both f:2.8.

At least the glass should all be good when I finally switch to E-mount.

At the moment an A7Rii is looking highest on my shopping list, but by the time I go for it something more advanced may be in my price bracket on the used market.

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