A7Rii first impressions thread (incl RAW downloads)

[3dit0r]

That said, I might well make C1 my default raw processor. I had always found it much nicer on Fuji files, and had no idea it was superior for other types of sensor also.

[3dit0r]

@klaush - I looked at the linked C1 thread and clearly the same artefact is not present in the C1 processed file in that thread, as in the LR version. I'll do my own test later.

 

I don't want to pull this thread OT any further, apologies for this, but I'll just say that, if true that C1 doesn't exhibit this behaviour, would it point to this not being raw compression related, or would it be possible that C1 interprets the compression data differently?

[Guest all8]

@klaush - I looked at the linked C1 thread and clearly the same artefact is not present in the C1 processed file in that thread, as in the LR version. I'll do my own test later.

 

I don't want to pull this thread OT any further, apologies for this, but I'll just say that, if true that C1 doesn't exhibit this behaviour, would it point to this not being raw compression related, or would it be possible that C1 interprets the compression data differently?

 

Just keep in mind that if you see problems with these files ... it could be caused by the RAW compression but its probably is not. The compression algorithm is actually a fairly smart idea and definitely no more stupid than the X-Tran sensor.

 

C1 seem to have  a close relationship with Sony, I would always try files with it when exploring these issues, for a second opinion of sorts.

[Beekeeper]

Hello,

 

I just tested the camera tethered to a mac with Capture1 Pro and Sony Remote Camera Control.   It connected with both applications after I set the USB setting to "PC" and turned on "Remote" in the camera menu.   However, I wasn't able to activate live view in either application.   Does anyone know if there is another setting I overlooked or is live view not supported for stills?   I'm currently a Canon user and I use this feature for still life shoots and interiors.  I'm very impressed with the A7R 2 and plan on converting to Sony soon.

 

Thanks.

[bbphoto]

Torture. Just picked up my body in So. California. Now I just need a lens to put on it... 

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[jayteepix]

A MP is a Mega Pixel and a MB is a Mega Byte. Not the same thing.

 

Sony RAW files are compressed in a potentially lossy way, most other cameras do not do that, they use a lossless compression. Google will happily answer all questions on that topic, or just search here on "Max the Dog" and prepare to become stupid.

 

Bottom line, it creates problems some times for some people, those people are "special" and should just use a MF camera ... for us mere mortals, we need not worry, the camera is more awesome than we will ever be ...

[jayteepix]

Thanks

LR shows IMAGES i. e. ARW as 42 MP and ARW files each occupy 42+ MB on my disk clearly not the same thing but of interest at least to me

[Philber]

My initial impression, and I shoot only manual focus, is that this camera is pretty demanding. It is so revealing, even coming from an A7R, that I see more clearly when something is less-than-totally-right. My guess is, my keeper rate just went down. But when I get it right, boy, is it right! 

[3dit0r]

Just keep in mind that if you see problems with these files ... it could be caused by the RAW compression but its probably is not. The compression algorithm is actually a fairly smart idea and definitely no more stupid than the X-Tran sensor.

 

C1 seem to have  a close relationship with Sony, I would always try files with it when exploring these issues, for a second opinion of sorts.

 

Haha, agreed, it is no more silly an idea than x-trans 

 

As with that, though, maybe this is somewhat a raw processor issue? I had time to try the same file, and another, using C1 and the problem is lessened to the point I wouldn't have noticed it, I don't think. That said, I don't think the highlight recovery in C1 at 100 is as strong as LR at -100 - in LR (with that particular file, and one other) it was when I tried to recover highlights past around -65 I started to notice.

 

Anyway, on balance, although I think Sony could and should simply provide true lossless raw (because why not?) every camera has issues, and this it just one to be aware of and try to work around when it occurs. My plan for now is to use as normal for probably 95% of shots, and then use C1 for any problem images.

 

Does anyone have any experience of whether there tends to be an issue on these bodies for astrophotography?

[bplet]

Picked mine up yesterday from a local Best Buy.  Cancelled my preorder on Amazon because I guess I wasn't close enough to the top of the list, but found that the BB nearest me is the only one within 4 hours or so that has it.  Also picked up a 55 f/1.8 along with it, to get me started while I wait for the Metabones.  I'm a long time Canon shooter with a full cadre of L glass, and this is my first foray into Sony / Zeiss.

 

First impressions:

• Wow, this thing is SO SMALL.  I knew it was going to be small, but somehow was still surprised at just how small and light it is.  I must admit I'm confused after seeing so many longtime Sony users complain that it's too big and heavy.  Even my wife (who I've given a Rebel for casual shooting) marveled at it's size "It's smaller than mine!!!".  It's so small that I'll have no choice but to add a vertical grip, if for no other reason than what it looks like to a paying client, because it looks like a casual tourist camera.  That may sound shallow, but a lot of paying clients are shallow, and can base their opinion of your abilities on the gear in your hand.  Sad but true.  But, knowing that I can take the grip off and have a much smaller camera than the bulky 5D3, for an outing with the family, is golden.  
   
• The EVF is definitely going to take some getting used to.  I love knowing that it's basically a WYSIWYG experience, and there's no chance of me blasting off a burst of shots that are massively underexposed simply because I'm in a hurry and failed to tweak my settings after changing a lens etc...  That said, I do wish there was a bit more consistency between the look of the EVF and the rear screen.  The EVF seems a bit brighter and in some way, cheapens the look of the image (I guess it's just the lower resolution), but I'm trying to remind myself "it'll look better than that", and perhaps it's just something that will take some time to adjust to.
   
• I LOOOOOVE the amount of flexibility you have with all the custom button assignments.  This camera has SO much power in it's different settings, and all the customizability (is that a word?) really helps in that department.  I've flipflopped several times already on where I want functions to go.
   
• AF speed on the 55 f/1.8 is fantastic.  I'll reserve judgement on my adapted Canon glass until I receive the Metabones.  Focusing in low light was actually much better than I thought it would be.
   
• As a portrait shooter, Eye-AF is like a wet dream.  I do wish it was more of a toggle, a function that you turn on and it continues to work until you turn it off, like facial recognition.  Unless I'm simply missing some potential setting that does turn it on as a constant... it's sort of a game of finger twister to be holding down multiple buttons at once to get it to lock onto the eyeball.  But it does do it well, and hopefully once I get the hang of it a little better, it'll be like second nature.
   
• RAW FILES: So, I played with the camera only, for many hours, and developed a certain affinity for it, but also still had some qualms.  The jury was still out.  Then I pulled all of my RAW files into LR and started playing, and my mind was once again blown.  These raws are a dream to work with.  They respond to extreme pushing and pulling in a way my 5Diii files never can.  Details in shadows come are brought up without any nasty banding and minimal noise (the "noise" manifests itself as soft film grain rather than digital noise).  Shots that I assumed were completely blown out and unusable were recovered with ease.  I.  Love.  These raw files.  The experience of working with the raws was a huge boost to my general feelings of working with the camera.  The finished sculpture is more important to me than the chisel.   I have not seen any sign of the infamous compression artifacts yet.

Looking forward to spending another day with it (followed by another lovely evening of examining files).  We're taking our kids to an amusement park today, as an end-of-summer treat.  They're excited about the rides, I'm excited to keep playing with this little bad boy.  Cheers

 

DSC00050 by b.paulette, on Flickr

[jayteepix]

The A7Rii manual indicates that the format is Sony ARW 2.3 (see page 98 in the UK version). This would indicate the normal Sony lossy compression, so I believe.

 

Here was an in-depth article, if you care to read it, with credits to the authors at the page itself: http://www.rawdigger.com/howtouse/sony-craw-arw2-posterization-detection

 

Whether it affects an individual or not seems to depend on scene, contrast, graduation of colour, how much the image is pushed in post-processing, and mostly, how close you are viewing the image. It may not affect every shot, and may not affect every person...

 

Hope that helps...

 

Many thanks for that feedback and link, much appreciated. FWIW... Sony Image Data Converter shows my ARW files as "ARW 2.3 (compressed) format" just as you stated.

[Singingsnapper]

Just come back from a first 'proper shoot with the A7RII.  I left my 645Z in the car.  On first look Dynamic range is nothing short of amazing.  What I love is that I can go light carrying the holy trinity of FE zoom lenses:  16-35, 24 - 70 and 70 - 200, and not feel the weight...

 

Better still no absolute need for a huge tripod.  This is the one I used on the edge of cliffs with a little sea breeze (wouldn't use in stronger winds, but was fine for today's:  now I'm going to look through and do some processing.  Some were at twilight so D Day for possible posterisation.  I'll expect to see some at the margins and hope to be pleasantly surprised...

 

Tripod by singingsnapper, on Flickr

[Singingsnapper]

Right - this is a shot taken at Rhossili in South Wales immediately after sunset shooting straight at the light.  Here is a screenshot of the original shot in LRCC untouched:

 

Screen Shot 2015-08-07 at 00.12.15 by singingsnapper, on Flickr

 

Then after some adjustments in LRCC - including maxing the shadows and adding nearly 2 stops of exposure:

 

Screen Shot 2015-08-07 at 00.12.04 by singingsnapper, on Flickr

 

and after processing in PSCC, using a small amount of Dfine NR then Viveza to add some structure and contrast, and a soft grad in Color efex (this shot was handheld at f/5.6 shutter speed 1/500 at ISO 200 with 16-35 at 16mm EV was set at -2 and shot in Aperture Priority.  There wasn't that much noise, but using Viveza and a software grad often amplifies it.

 

This is the final result:

 

Worm's Head just after sunset copy by singingsnapper, on Flickr

 

There is some very minor posterisation, but this isn't present in the .psd file, this is something I find with my 645Z files with files like this.  The smaller .jpg compresses these tones further.  As I don't pixel peep, even this level of posterisation in minor and I have seen it stronger in other files with my 645Z.  it's just a matter of being careful what you do to the blues and cyan tones...I could indeed have played safer with the sky and this would probably not have shown its head even in a 1500px jpg.  I always save jpg as full quality.

 

Hope this helps...

[Singingsnapper]

Picked mine up yesterday from a local Best Buy.  Cancelled my preorder on Amazon because I guess I wasn't close enough to the top of the list, but found that the BB nearest me is the only one within 4 hours or so that has it.  Also picked up a 55 f/1.8 along with it, to get me started while I wait for the Metabones.  I'm a long time Canon shooter with a full cadre of L glass, and this is my first foray into Sony / Zeiss.

 

First impressions:

• Wow, this thing is SO SMALL.  I knew it was going to be small, but somehow was still surprised at just how small and light it is.  I must admit I'm confused after seeing so many longtime Sony users complain that it's too big and heavy.  Even my wife (who I've given a Rebel for casual shooting) marveled at it's size "It's smaller than mine!!!".  It's so small that I'll have no choice but to add a vertical grip, if for no other reason than what it looks like to a paying client, because it looks like a casual tourist camera.  That may sound shallow, but a lot of paying clients are shallow, and can base their opinion of your abilities on the gear in your hand.  Sad but true.  But, knowing that I can take the grip off and have a much smaller camera than the bulky 5D3, for an outing with the family, is golden.  

   

• The EVF is definitely going to take some getting used to.  I love knowing that it's basically a WYSIWYG experience, and there's no chance of me blasting off a burst of shots that are massively underexposed simply because I'm in a hurry and failed to tweak my settings after changing a lens etc...  That said, I do wish there was a bit more consistency between the look of the EVF and the rear screen.  The EVF seems a bit brighter and in some way, cheapens the look of the image (I guess it's just the lower resolution), but I'm trying to remind myself "it'll look better than that", and perhaps it's just something that will take some time to adjust to

 

The EVF will look brighter mainly because when you look into it, you're closing off your eye to the light around you, so gives the same reaction as a slide show in a darkened room.  I often do this (and did with the A7R too) to check for focus, as it is easier to see things this way.  It does lead to more smudging on the back screen - I use my left eye to the viewfinder - always have.  Can't bring myself to use my right eye at all...

 

I had the battery grip on the A7R, but it wouldn't fit the mkII so sold it with the camera, so it now feels strange again like the bottom of the camera has fallen off!...if I'm running short of juice on all 4 batteries that I have, I can always plug in an external charger or charge in the car...

[Jamooche]

The shadow and highlight recovery on this camera is amazing!  I'm coming from a 5DIII and am not used to this.  

 

Handheld FE 35mm 2.8 - 1/80 at 2.8 ISO 3200

 

Original RAW:

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Edited in LR6:

[seb]

Picked up mine yesterday. It was one of the most funny store moments I've had. But that's another story.

 

Photography is only a hobby for me, but I do about one shooting every month with friends in almost any direction. I'm not so used to landscape or sports and have no experience with wildlife. I was doing analog photography since the 90s with my Minolta Dynax 7 until the A7 came out. So for the last 2 years I was using the A7 a lot and will compare the A7RII to it. I don't have any practical knowledge of other systems than minolta/sony.

 

Weight: The A7 with 55/1.8 feels like the sunday-walk-maybe-a-picture-camera and the A7RII with 90/2.8 is the pro-photographer-from-2050. Heavy, compact, good in the hand. Nothing that makes a big difference, if you have it in your bag. but maybe it's too heavy for handheld makros. The 90/2.8 on the A7Rii feels more shacky than with A7.

 

Pixels: Well, I had a wedding shooting last week and didnt get to my flash while sun set. There are some picture I had to push too much for the A7 IQ. I did some testshots yesterday under same conditions. The difference is like night and day. Without repeating what others already said, all in all never had/seen/used that much pixels, AF-sharpness and quality.

 

Focus: As an analog shooter for a long time, I was used to focus spots. With the A7 I've got a lot of great tools (eye focus, face detection, focus-lock, wide focus area,...) to get the right picture. The addition of AF-A, flexible Spot and Lock-AF Focus Areas makes the whol AF-handling to the killer feature of the A7RM2 for me.

 

Shooting Mode: The last 2 years I was shooting in M mode, because the 1/60s in A Mode was (for me) a bad choice for the 55/1.8. Every third picture wasnt sharp. And when I had to deal with moving subjects I know what I need at last, it's never 1/60s. It looks like A ist the new M. Why? Because of ISO Auto Min. SS.

 

Customization: There are so much tools you can use. There are so much useful stuff that helps you to get the perfect picture. But you need fast access to each of them. I was helpless yesterday until I've changed my settings to the same I had on my A7. And I was glad they add functions to the C-buttons, that I missed before (eg. eye focus). Hey, and I still get a smile when I think about the additional C-Button I have now.

 

EVF and manual focus: I did use that on my A7 a lot, because I see what I get. With the A7RII I had some issues to find the perfect focus point. I don't know yet if this is something of the new EVF, the diopter adjustment, the higher MP or low light.

 

Posterisation: I can see some posterisation from bright white to dark colors when I have to push the picture in post. and it looks to me, that it is more than with the A7. I can live with that, because most time this is not the case, and to be honest, you only see it when pixel-peeping and beeing a photographer.

 

Conclusion:

Even if the last two points were not positive I think everybody who is considering a new high end camera should put the A7RM2 on the comparing list. As I didn't shoot with other brands, I can't say the A7RM2 wins the battle, but I don't miss anything on this body.

We don't have to talk about the quality of the pictures you get out of this camera. It's just one of the best you can get atm.

If you use all the focus-features this body has, then we also don't have to talk about the AF. I can only smile, if you want to complain about AF-Hunting with S-Spot in low light on a black subject.

Without customization this camera is nothing. If you're changing from another system, you may not be aware of that. It's a long process to get used to all the features, but with the possibility to customize, it's an enjoyable one!

 

_DSC0086 by seflick, auf Flickr

 

I know, it's not tack sharp. It's just a handheld shot in 1:1 distance.

 

and more testpics from yesterday under: https://flic.kr/s/aHskhEzqnf

[Jamooche]

 

Customization: There are so much tools you can use. There are so much useful stuff that helps you to get the perfect picture. But you need fast access to each of them. I was helpless yesterday until I've changed my settings to the same I had on my A7. And I was glad they add functions to the C-buttons, that I missed before (eg. eye focus). Hey, and I still get a smile when I think about the additional C-Button I have now.

 

 

Thanks for your great short review.   I got mine yesterday too.  It's going to take some time to get adjusted coming from a 5DIII. 

 

I'm trying to figure out how best to customize the buttons.  What did you set the buttons to?  What other customizations did you do to make you less helpless?

 

Thanks!

[seb]

The wheel (I use it a lot while switching between different focus-strategies):

left: focus mode

right: focus area (on manual mode, you get the magnifier, pushed twice and you are at 12x zoom)

down: metering mode

center: standard (on spot mode you can select directly the position and size of the spot, if you wanna center it push C4)

up: display mode

wheel: not set (sadly to sensitive, otherwise it would be ISO)

--> master the joy-stick and you get the next level

 

front and rear dial: standard

 

FN (mostly to check if anything is ok and set the basics for the shooting):

Up1: Face detection

Up2: DRO/HDR

Up3: ISO Auto min SS

Up4: Flash compensation

Up5: Flash mode

Up6: Steady Shot

Down1: Center Lock-on AF

Down 2: Image quality (RAW)

Down 3: ISO (normaly to auto between 100 to 1600)

Down 4-6: Control that whitebalance (4), effect mode (5) and creativity mode (6) is off

 

C-Buttons (things you switch on and off for the next few shots):

C1: Drive mode

C2: huh... ehm... don't remember. i think its Center Lock-on AF. As the focus areas in AF-C get that on the fly, I may change that. maybe for faster access to ISO-settings

C3: eye focus (you have to hold, so take it on a position, where you can easily push this and the release button)

C4: silent shutter

AF/MF: toggle(!) AF/MF

AEL: toggle(!) AEL

 

in the menu (some things that are worth a look, and my settings):

color space: adobe RGB

eye-AF: off

grid line: 3/3

peaking level: high

peaking color: red

monitor brightness: sunny weather

display quality: high

remote ctrl: on

 

Some settings may change, because there are more functions and more availability on the new camera.

I hope i have the right names for the functions. I'm german and the listing was without having the camera with me.

[bbphoto]

Here is original sooc (compressed through iPhone and resized with an app). I'll post another comment below with a crop showing the incredible detail using 55 1.8 Z!

[bbphoto]

Sorry the quality is terrible I'm trying to do this from my phone as in away from home!

 

http://imgur.com/8JIFtYB

[Snowfun]

I have the A7s, A6000 & rx100iv and insofar as possible things are consistent across all three. Of course, the buttons are different in the 3 cameras so I make extensive use of the Fn button. As I use each for different purposes, the "C" buttons are camera (ie use) specific. Works. For me.

Although, yes, the customisation enables easy (easier?) access to the functions I want, I find another bonus is that I can hide away and disable those things I don't!

I always "set to nothing" the wheel and associated buttons (except up for display).

It is a credit to Sony that they give us this "standardised" flexibility.

Tim

[Jamooche]

The wheel (I use it a lot while switching between different focus-strategies):

left: focus mode

right: focus area (on manual mode, you get the magnifier, pushed twice and you are at 12x zoom)

down: metering mode

center: standard (on spot mode you can select directly the position and size of the spot, if you wanna center it push C4)

up: display mode

wheel: not set (sadly to sensitive, otherwise it would be ISO)

--> master the joy-stick and you get the next level

 

front and rear dial: standard

 

FN (mostly to check if anything is ok and set the basics for the shooting):

Up1: Face detection

Up2: DRO/HDR

Up3: ISO Auto min SS

Up4: Flash compensation

Up5: Flash mode

Up6: Steady Shot

Down1: Center Lock-on AF

Down 2: Image quality (RAW)

Down 3: ISO (normaly to auto between 100 to 1600)

Down 4-6: Control that whitebalance (4), effect mode (5) and creativity mode (6) is off

 

C-Buttons (things you switch on and off for the next few shots):

C1: Drive mode

C2: huh... ehm... don't remember. i think its Center Lock-on AF. As the focus areas in AF-C get that on the fly, I may change that. maybe for faster access to ISO-settings

C3: eye focus (you have to hold, so take it on a position, where you can easily push this and the release button)

C4: silent shutter

AF/MF: toggle(!) AF/MF

AEL: toggle(!) AEL

 

in the menu (some things that are worth a look, and my settings):

color space: adobe RGB

eye-AF: off

grid line: 3/3

peaking level: high

peaking color: red

monitor brightness: sunny weather

display quality: high

remote ctrl: on

 

Some settings may change, because there are more functions and more availability on the new camera.

I hope i have the right names for the functions. I'm german and the listing was without having the camera with me.

Awesome...fantastic!  Thank you. I am going to play around with these settings.

[seb]

welcome. tell me what you're doing different.

[Wesley]

bplet: There is setting to adjust EVF brightness. Default should be on auto.

 

As for the size, I happen to see more people complain that it's too small actually but this is from the A-mount camp that wants the A99II. Of course there is the battery grip but I wish it also had the D-pad / circle selector on it. 

[Singingsnapper]

Mine hit the deck today.  Some numbskull who had just been standing in the middle of the shot I was planning to take (so that he could take shots of the sunset with his iPhone and chat with someone, carelessly walked into my tripod (big one this time) as I was getting my Lee filters out.  Wanted to do some proper shooting using soft grads so that I wouldn't have any issues with skies.  Ended up with specks all over the sensor.  Had to wait until I got home to check the sensor over.  The back screen has a small scratch, but thankfully all the bits came out when I used a lenspen blower.  Phew!  The guy just shrugged his shoulder without apologising.  I felt like 'accidentally' knocking him off the cliff.  By the time I got my 645Z set up instead, I'd lost the shot I wanted.  Still got some longer shots but I wanted some slow shutter water action with the 16 - 35 and A7RII...