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A7Rii first impressions thread (incl RAW downloads)


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...The rest shows some great sharpness although it looks to me that the FE 70-200mm is at the limit of its performance...

Why do you say that? That's one of the lenses I'm thinking of getting with it right off the bat, but definitely want to make sure it's going to perform well at this level of pixels/detail. OP, what do you think?

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Why do you say that? That's one of the lenses I'm thinking of getting with it right off the bat, but definitely want to make sure it's going to perform well at this level of pixels/detail. OP, what do you think?

 

Download the RAW for the Small Liner and see for yourself!

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Come on.... You've been a member for just over 6 hours (sic) and that's the best you can do?

Posterization? Love it.

 

Why are people SO touchy about anyone who brings this up?  I'm no fanboy either way, but I do have an R2 on pre-order, and this is my first dive into an A7 body.  This is a concern of mine as well.  And in general, it'll continue to be a valid question until Sony addresses the issue.

 

From what I've seen, just from other people's files, it seems to rear its head in very high contrast areas when a RAW file is pushed hard.  e.g.  https://www.flickr.com/photos/rickyban/20113017602/ (see the edge between the guy's left wrist and the dark area behind it - look at original size - that's nasty)   Yes, he pushed the file VERY HARD.  But some people do push raw files hard, and we should be able to if we want.  We usually pay for that pushing with noise/banding but this is a whole other brand of headache.  I shoot a lot of theatre production photos, with HUGE contrast between people in bright spotlights and darkness behind them, so this topic has me very nervous.

 

Sony needs to get on this, and protective forum folk need to lighten up when it's brought up as an issue.  Because it is an issue.

 

(now, to be clear, all that aside... I'm as giddy as a school girl to get my hands on this camera, because most of the RAW files I've played with have been insanely fun, and respond to extreme pushing/pulling VERY well)

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Thanks Snowfun - I joined because I'm interested in making the switch to Sony. If I wanted abuse I would have gone to the Nikon/Canon forums. The primary reason I'm considering Sony is that Clyde Butcher (who primarily shot with 8x10 and 20x24) is using a Sony a7r on a Cambo Actus. I like to push RAW files so the 11+7 issue is of concern.

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Looking at the A7RII noise test above, still looks like Canon is better.

 

Here's my bottom line, and I own Leica (just sold) Canons and Sony A7R with an A7RII on order and maybe picked up this week, so I think I'm neutral ... but this is a rant against fanboyism ... don't let it tint the new cameras.

 

Listened to lots of rubbish how the Sony range is better than the Canon in every detail ... sorry, it's not. Happy with the A7R for single shots, same as my Leica M9, just as slow and thoughtful, but it just doesn't feel the complete package that the 5DII and 1DIV do. Lighter, yes, more compact (but not more compact than the Leica), but higher ISO sucks big time compared to the Canons where I never gave it another thought. Hope the A7RII delivers what the A7R promised there (listened to too many fanboys I'm afraid), but for high ISO and taking action shots, the A7R sucks!

 

Took the A7R out today with the FE 70-200 and boy is it slow! Now I can stand all day in the rain with my Canon 1DIV and 300 2.8 and back off 10fps as I wish and get very high % keepers (failures tend to be me moving ...). Shot today a soccer match and got about 29 shots where normally I would have hit 250 without thinking, and end up with 50-70 selects (deleting similar shots in a range and keeping the best). Hope the A7RII is better there as well as the ISO noise.

 

So why the A7RII? Because it is better AT SOME THINGS, especially for a travel camera. All Sony has to do now is get off their backsides and deliver it!

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Firstly, I agree that Sony isn't better in every area than Canon, or Nikon.

 

That said, to my eye, the Canon doesn't look better in those noise tests - it looks to me the 5Diii and A7rii are pretty much even. My guess, without RAW files to play with, is that by the time you up-res the 5Diii file to the A7rii res, the A7rii will be significantly cleaner and sharper, and when you down-res the A7rii to the 5Diii res, the same. I must say, this is the area I was most concerned about before ordering, but so far I'm very impressed - looks like better than D810 performance with more resolution.

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Looking at the A7RII noise test above, still looks like Canon is better.

 

Here's my bottom line, and I own Leica (just sold) Canons and Sony A7R with an A7RII on order and maybe picked up this week, so I think I'm neutral ... but this is a rant against fanboyism ... don't let it tint the new cameras.

 

Listened to lots of rubbish how the Sony range is better than the Canon in every detail ... sorry, it's not. Happy with the A7R for single shots, same as my Leica M9, just as slow and thoughtful, but it just doesn't feel the complete package that the 5DII and 1DIV do. Lighter, yes, more compact (but not more compact than the Leica), but higher ISO sucks big time compared to the Canons where I never gave it another thought. Hope the A7RII delivers what the A7R promised there (listened to too many fanboys I'm afraid), but for high ISO and taking action shots, the A7R sucks!

 

Took the A7R out today with the FE 70-200 and boy is it slow! Now I can stand all day in the rain with my Canon 1DIV and 300 2.8 and back off 10fps as I wish and get very high % keepers (failures tend to be me moving ...). Shot today a soccer match and got about 29 shots where normally I would have hit 250 without thinking, and end up with 50-70 selects (deleting similar shots in a range and keeping the best). Hope the A7RII is better there as well as the ISO noise.

 

So why the A7RII? Because it is better AT SOME THINGS, especially for a travel camera. All Sony has to do now is get off their backsides and deliver it!

I'm no fanboy either, my main camera is the Pentax 645Z and I'm looking to replace my A7R with the II as my back up and lighter camera.  

 

If you are going to make comparisons, why are you comparing apples with sausages?  Comparing the A7R with the 1DIV?  Really?  The Sony was slower?  Wow! I'd never have thought that would be the case! (insert irony avatar here)

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Hi Guys,

 

Just got my A7Rii today. Long time A7 owner (moved off Nikon D800 due to diabolical LiveView and lack of inovation by Nikon). I must say I'm impressed

 

As I'm pressed for time here are some off the cuff observations

 

Pros

 

  • Feels really, really solid
  • View finder is much better than A7
  • ISO Performance is very, very good. Did some shots at 1250 (as it's always cloudy in Scotland) and was really impressed with how clean they were. On the A7 noise was noticeable around this point. Not so in 
  • 2 Batteries in the box. At least it shows Sony is taking battery life seriously. If they can't make their batteries last longer it's nice to see that they've provided a work around to the problem.
  • External Charger - for 2700 quid I damn well expect to be able to take pictures and charge my battery. Good to see a mega corporation listening to their customers
  • Wheel no longer adjusts ISO, so can't accidentally shift it with your cheek. I can't count the number of times I've got home to find I've a ton of shots and ISO 6400+ cause something brushed
  • Dynamic Range is very good. Accidentally over-exposed a shot but quite a bit and it managed to recover quite a lot of detail.
  • Tons of Detail - I shoot mostly landscape so I think this is going to a match made in heaven
  • Focus is faster, not as fast as my Nikons were but not far away

Cons

  • Much heavier, especially with LA-EA4 (I shoot mostly with adapted Sigma Art Lenses)
  • Silent Shooting mode disables Hot shoe flash. Had my Bowens transmitter in the shoe, switched to manual + silent shutter. Flash doesn't pop. Switch off silent shutter, flash pops. Not a major issue but did have me scratching my head for a while.
  • Same 'ol menu system. I'm used to it now but it does take a while to find stuff. Would be nice to have a custom or frequently used page

I'll try and post some RAW files to my web site soon. Now I'm off to play!

 

"

  • Much heavier, especially with LA-EA4 (I shoot mostly with adapted Sigma Art Lenses)"

 

Better get yourself a LA-EA3 adapter. From the videos I have seen it will perform much faster than the LA-EA4 on all but the older screw drive lenses. Using the 4 your not getting the AF system from the camera, only the one that is built into the adapter.

 

I can not say 100% for a few more days, as my RII has not arrived yet, but I do have both adapters, and a 35mm Art lens, so I will make some tests as soon as I can, but from what I currently understand, you don't get any of the benefits of the new AF system using the LA-EA4 adapter.

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Post your own first impressions here / feel free to ask me anything.
If I sound critical is this brief description it’s because $3k cameras are not allowed to make excuses  :-)
 
 
-It's massive, I really don’t like how big these cameras have become. I knew the weight had gone up hugely too and expected that to make it feel like a dense, top quality item. It doesn’t - it merely feels just like any other good DSLR.
-Packaging/presentation is standard fare, no more premium than any of their other cameras.
-Included: 2 batteries, USB cable, strap, nicely compact 11W USB charger.
-It accepted my non-Sony battery and happily charged from all my USB battery packs as well as an iPhone wall charger while in use.
-Viewfinder: nicer than I expected though flicker is very noticable, resolution adequate but pixels visible
-Speed of operation: Responsive, some extra (but still not all) functions can be used while it’s still writing to card
-Software: Many small improvements, eg more customisation, can add copyright, zooms into AF area chosen instead of the centre every time, AutoISO limits 
-Shutter: I’m going to love silent shutter and might leave it that way perminantly: I couldn’t make any rolling shutter-like artefacts appear when I tried
-Buffer: A sometimes-limiting 21 shots (RAW+JPG), and only 44 shots/min thereafter using a 280MB/sec card. RAWs are 43.5MB each.
 
Overall - When you say “Oh my God” loudly after viewing the very first shot, you know you have something special…makes me want to go reshoot everything I’ve had success with before and more :-D
 
 
Some out-of-camera quick snapshots (a rush job / variety of RAW situations for those pixel peepers, rather than shot for their artistic merit so don’t judge me!)
Click pic for jpg, or RAW then the ”Download This File" button.
 
FE70-200mm  RAW
 
FE28mm  RAW
 
FE28mm  RAW
 
FE28mm  RAW
 
FE70-200mm  RAW
 
FE70-200mm  RAW
 
FE28mm RAW
 
FE70-200mm  RAW
 
FE28mm
 
FE28mm Obligatory cats shot
 

 

I've read on other forums that the EVF is better than the X-T1 EVF, even better than the previous A7 cameras, to me the X-T1 EVF is one of the best I've seen, why you did not like it? what are the main issues? thanks

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I've read on other forums that the EVF is better than the X-T1 EVF, even better than the previous A7 cameras, to me the X-T1 EVF is one of the best I've seen, why you did not like it? what are the main issues? thanks

 

Before buying I was disappointed to hear the viewfinder was apparently not upgraded, only the optics you view it through are improved vs previous A7 cameras. I haven't used any other EVFs so can't compare but any concerns are now completely gone, I am more than satisfied and surprised I've switched to using it predominantly already since I'm not used to one. Giving yourself night vision through it is amazing yet a little spooky. Only negatives are some flicker under certain conditions and that pixels are visible - though not to a detrimental extent; in fact they can help with levelling!

 

---

 
Shot some seabirds today to test AF - first time for me since my old camera wasn’t capable of this (had hoped to shoot Catwalk thisevening, which is more my kind of thing).
 
-Took 600 skyflight shots, mostly as fast as the card could save them, which used 35% of the battery.
-130 of those were in focus. I don’t know if that’s good or bad, but if I took my time instead of holding the shutter and flailing around, I’d say I could improve that to between a third and one half in focus.
-I used M but with auto ISO, this seems to expose more for the sky than the birds so most could do with some post-processing.
-As mentioned before, buffer is 21 RAW+JPG & then only 44 per minute thereafter, so you need to exercise restraint. I ran out a few times, and you can forget about reviewing any shots as it was writing to the card permanently.
 
Here’s a selection of the 130 usable ones, straight out of camera like all the others posted in this thread:
Dinner JPG RAW  |  BitDistantWhoCares42MP JPG RAW  |  Rat JPG RAW  |  DidSomeoneSayFish  JPG RAW  |  ThresholdForMyDefinitionOfInFocus JPG RAW
 
AF performance is great in good light though the reduction in performance in low light is more pronounced than e.g. high-end Canon cameras.
 
Overall I’m really happy with the camera. So many more possibilities! It’s encouraged me to invest in a card capable of 4K recording, as well as the FE 55mm which will be picked up tomorrow :)    If only it was as small as my NEX 5N...
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I'm no fanboy either, my main camera is the Pentax 645Z and I'm looking to replace my A7R with the II as my back up and lighter camera.  

 

If you are going to make comparisons, why are you comparing apples with sausages?  Comparing the A7R with the 1DIV?  Really?  The Sony was slower?  Wow! I'd never have thought that would be the case! (insert irony avatar here)

Actually I was thinking of comparing it to my 5DII which was my travel camera, which was about 7 years old. Skipped the 5DIII as it didn't seem to offer much more for my use.

 

Bottom line is the Sony is much slower, and ISO lots noisier not much point of having 43 stops of detail when you can only print 9 (or whatever ..)

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Hi there,

 

Please excuse the question on this first impressions thread, but I would be very happy if those people who are posting their findings with a real camera to also add in some extra information, especially on on 'stills' rather than just video. So, if you post here, can you also add in what you feel about: -

 

1) AF normal and in low-light

2) Responsiveness, handling

 

Supposing I have a subject, lets call it a toddler, moves around a bit, etc, and I want some portraits. With my Nikon D810, I just go to 3D tracking using back-button focusing, lock onto an eye, I can squeeze off a shot, and just as I take the shot if I see the subject blink, or alternatively just see an expression change that I want to capture, I can squeeze of several more shots in quick succession, with no delay. The camera feels instant in its response, with a short black-out time and very short shot-to-shot time in single-shot mode, so that, if my brain, reflexes and finger allows it, I can track a subject and fire off many shots, even up to 5 shots in one second if I really need to.

 

So, for the A7Rii, point 1), I am most interested in how the tracking works while shooting. Most reviews seem to only assess the tracking in the viewfinder yet don't fire off a shot, but what is more interesting to me is how the camera continues to track in single-shot mode. So, can you use back-button focusing, then lock onto a subject, say an eye, or any small target, either moving, or while recomposing, and squeeze off a few shots in succession. Does the focus keep tracking the subject successfully throughout the sequence of shots?

 

For point 2), connected with the AF somewhat, but in MF also, what is important for me is the ability to fire the shutter 'when I want', as described above. Is the black-out and shot-to-shot time short; can you virtually fire at will, or is there a long black-out or delay between successive shots?

 

Your impressions on the camera responsiveness would be much appreciated.

 

Many thanks.

 

 

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Why do you say that? That's one of the lenses I'm thinking of getting with it right off the bat, but definitely want to make sure it's going to perform well at this level of pixels/detail. OP, what do you think?

Concerning the FE 70-200mm I was looking especially at the picture of the white house with the "Duke of Wellington" lettering. The lettering itself is adequately sharp but going out towards the edges the details in the wood just under the roof are ever so slightly fuzzy. This picture was taken at f/4.5, i.e. almost wide-open, so still a commendable performance but it simply shows that lenses can be taxed with such a high-resolution sensor. The picture of the boat was at f/9 and shows excellent detail IMHO. The duck picture is adequately sharp but not super, may be caused by subject movement because shutter speed was only 1/100s. All-in-all I think the FE 70-200mm performs really well here, but stopping down a bit is probably wise if you want optimum image quality; in my experience that is already wise when using this lens on the A7.

 

That's my take on it after having had another look at the raws I was able to download (OP, thanks again!).

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Hi easycass-

 

AF:

Perfectly good in sunlight, but certainly not DSLR or A6000 speed in lower light (small spot starts to slow even in a normally-lit indoor room). It looks to me like Phase Detect isn't used at all on Spot focus modes: can fail to focus entirely if there's little contrast.

You would need to prefocus to close to where it needs to be before taking the shot if following kids. For good performance it needs to be already within 10-15% of the distance change required.

 

Responsiveness:

The UI is brilliantly responsive in every way - with one major exception: reviewing shots. This could be a dealbreaker for some:

The first shot takes a frustrating 3.1 seconds to save (RAW+JPG) even with a fast card. To my mind there is NO reason this shouldn't be just over 1 second, since that is the rate it bulk-writes images when clearing the buffer.

There is however, zero lag in taking additional shots while it writes. Blackout is nonexistant in continuous drive mode (no mirror!)

 

The other concern people always seem to have is Battery:

A non-issue for me. Used 2 batteries on a 9-hour sightseeing day out yesterday, I would struggle to use more than 3 in one day. A USB battery tops up the internal battery at the rate of 0.9% per minute.

 

 

In keeping with my "Post typical output rather than only perfect shots" theme, I decided I'd post the first shot I took with the new 55mm no matter how good or bad it turned out:


zuVEElIm.jpg

Not keen on the composition (it's not even level: camera was held on the floor at arms length), clipped highlights, focus is on cheek not eye, and should have been ISO100…and yet still looks pretty good.

 

 

 

addieleman's observations are all 100% valid, we should probably have a separate showcase thread for properly-taken shots to show off just how good this camera is. I did warn that these were all just quick snapshots with a variety of settings for those wanting to see RAWs and how demanding the sensor is  :-)
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AF:
...For good performance it needs to be already within 10-15% of the distance change required...
 
Responsiveness:
...There is however, zero lag in taking additional shots while it writes. Blackout is nonexistant in continuous drive mode (no mirror!)...
 
 

 

Hi there LeButler,

 

Thank you for your answer. The two important areas for me were interesting... I guess I can live with the AF as you describe it, as I can use MF where need be, but only if the responsiveness is good, which seems to be the case in what you have described. In the last two years I have struggled trying to get the Fujis to take over from my Nikons, but both slow focus and poor shot-to-shot speed (yes, and even long blackout of EVF with mirrorless... go figure), mean that, aside from the money thrown at the Fuji bodies and lenses, it was sad to have so many missed and lost shots I couldn't get compared to what I normally got from my trusty Nikons with their 'old-fashioned' mirrors. So I want to be sure this time before embarking on another brand, as good as the Sonys do appear to be. Guess I will have to give the A7Rii a try once I can get hold of one...

 

Thank you for the other information. I think IQ will be fine for me... nice dog shot. As you say, if typical grab shots are good, I am sure fine technique with steady hands or tripod will be even better. In the end, if responsiveness is good enough to take over from my Nikons, that'll be great.

 

Thanks again...

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Here’s the missing paragraph I intended to include in the post above:

 

If you don’t mind giving up spot focusing, Continuous Wide would get much closer. In “1/200th, F3.2, ISO 2500” light situation, a cat walking towards me from 5m to 2m away will always get minimum 3 and usually 4-5 out 5 frames in each second in focus. Great! But any faster than that and the hitrate quickly drops.
Firing off single shots during back-button focus, the camera never lags at all if Silent Shutter is enabled which is how I use it. With the shutter, it's the usual 0.2sec (5fps) it’s rated for between shots. But you do get a “fake” blackout as each one it taken (I wish there was the option to disable this, switching Silent & EFC modes doesn't help).
 
 
And adding:
When I say UI responsiveness is great that means everything about the camera except actual focussing lock-on. If you're used to a top 2% camera like the D810, no Sony mirrorless AF will satisfy you (the A7Rii isn’t even the best of those; it's spot focus might even be worse than Fujis).  It's very hard to describe, you'd have to borrow one for a day to know for yourself...
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Picked up my A7r11 today. Auto focus is very very good. Even in low light. I've moved from Nikon D90 to fujix100s then Sony A6000 (amazing auto focus). The A7R11 beats them all.

 

 

I clearly need to adapt to the new camera. Continuous AF modes are indeed great and maybe that's what I should be using, but what I like and am used to, "single-shot spot with smallest possible point", isn't close to the 7D mk II.

 

And it was a shock to see it right beside a 7D today, I'd forgotten how gargantuan they really are. I should also take back my "massive" comment about the A7Rii and be grateful Sony didn't make it larger.

 

 

BIG UPDATE:  Just had another play and I think I might have been judging it harshly for two reasons: the small spot is so tiny on the A7Rii, but mainly because it's FAR FAR worse when shooting my specific test situation: focusing on the centre of this http://imgur.com/D2xMoBQ staff. With the camera in Portrait mode it will consistently hunt for 1-4 seconds (tried it 8 times). Rotate the camera to landscape, and focus time goes back down to 0.2 seconds. Kindof like not having cross AF points on DSLRs I guess. Inexplicably, if I shoot the same item laid horizontally with the camera in Landscape, no focussing problems at all (!)

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Got mine today at LCE in the West Country.  First impressions are good, especially coming from MkI.  Even without silent shutter, camera is SOOO much quieter.  No clunk any more.  The silent shutter is so silent is feels weird.  Had a play with the Panoramic in camera, and that is always fiddly, but came out alright, but not a feature I use a lot.

 

One concern is that when I use the presets in LRCC, (I usually use Camera Landscape) there is some green and magenta splogginess in grey skies.  It's like the pixels have been split in certain places.  

 

After my gripped A7R (which I traded in) it feels a little strange in the hand, but having two batteries ( I already have 2 spares) and a battery pack, I don't need a grip anyway.  The soft turn of the dials is a lot more smooth.  I engaged the cleaning mode (didn't need to just decided to engage it) and you can actually feel the vibrations, the first time I have had this.  Maybe it will be the first time one is truly effective!

 

Anyway happy with the camera overall...

 

Some have said it's big and heavy.  If you're used to dragging around a Pentax 645Z and an assortment of lenses, it's like a feather!

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BIG UPDATE:  Just had another play and I think I might have been judging it harshly for two reasons: the small spot is so tiny on the A7Rii, but mainly because it's FAR FAR worse when shooting my specific test situation: focusing on the centre of this http://imgur.com/D2xMoBQ staff. With the camera in Portrait mode it will consistently hunt for 1-4 seconds (tried it 8 times). Rotate the camera to landscape, and focus time goes back down to 0.2 seconds. Kindof like not having cross AF points on DSLRs I guess. Inexplicably, if I shoot the same item laid horizontally with the camera in Landscape, no focussing problems at all (!)

 

I was used to small single spot too, but changed my habits over the last two years with the A7. Not because it hunts a lot, I just get faster to good results with the tools like face detection, eye AF and lock-on AF in AF-C and wide focus area. If I need spot focus, I'll use medium size where AF works excellent (except those really few times where I need small size).

 

@LeButler: Besides I like the thing you portraied, it looks like a classic bad light situation. Is it better in good light? Did you have the hunting also with other subjects?

@Others: Can someone copy that?

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